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**AndyFatBastard** · 16-10-10, 11:56

Hands 1 and 2 are easy folds for me. Yeah it sucks when you get shown a bluff, but I don't think tournaments like this are won and lost on marginal spots. In Hand 2 especially, I think when you don't 3bet pre, you've got to expect that the flop, turn and river are going to be awkward to play.

In hand 3, if I think this guy can fold a weak Q on the turn then I might shove. IMO this is usually what average live players have when they donk. They're betting mostly for information.

**TommyGunne** · 16-10-10, 12:01

Hand 1: Call river. Not sure if I cbet, depends on how I think both guys play.

Hand 2: Prefer flatting to 3betting here. I fold the turn.

Hand 3: Fold turn.

**Belgowho** · 16-10-10, 19:35

hand 1 shove pre

**Fuzzy Logic** · 16-10-10, 20:24

Originally posted by Belgowho View Post

hand 1 shove pre

huh?

**newbie2** · 16-10-10, 20:40

Originally posted by Fuzzy Logic View Post

huh?

He said:

Originally posted by Belgowho View Post

hand 1 shove pre

**bp_me** · 17-10-10, 02:10

Hand 1: Open for more. It's still early stage so 2.5x or 3x I think. 2.25x is just too easy to call for either blind (we can only assume they had complete muck considering the price both were getting). I would consider firing at the turn rather than letting villain float. Doubt I would call the river.

Hand 2: I probably give up on the flop. If not I certainly would to the turn barrel. I don't see the merit of flatting the flop bet. You certainly aren't getting a price for a 2 outer and villains "unusual" open should be sounding all sorts of warning bells.

Hand 3: I don't really like any of the options you have facing the flop bet (flat, raise, fold). Flatting is essentially looking for a 2 outer and/or floating. Based on description we can probably expect villain to bet most turns. Raising means putting 1/3 of your stack in with an under pair to the board... would you be able to get away from it? Folding at least has the merit of conserving your chips for a better spot which you should be able to find in a long structure. I would probably lean towards folding the flop and wouldn't continue after villains turn bet.

**max_power** · 17-10-10, 11:18

Hand 1:

What kind of value range do you think he has on the river? Once I checked the turn I'm kinda turning my hand faceup so fully expect him to fire at it.

Think b/f turn is a better line?

Hand 2:

Folding flop is so weak imo, have to call at least once. Again I fully expect him to put pressure on me on the turn, I had intended to call a lot of turns but his sizing put me off a bit. Still very unsure about it.

Hand 3:

Trying to assign a value range to him was difficult imo. What kinda range can we assign to him when he donks? Was pretty sure I could discount monsters as the std line is to crai the flop there imo. Anyway I called the 20k and a baby blank rolls of. He fires another 20k (71800) I puke and...

**Fuzzy Logic** · 17-10-10, 17:11

Originally posted by newbie2 View Post

He said:

Nah, got that, but we are over 100BB's deep unless I am being an idiot. So we should open shove with 100BB's?

**newbie2** · 17-10-10, 19:15

you are being an idiot, that's beside the point. but you're right - we should never be open shoving with 100BB's here

**max_power** · 17-10-10, 21:44

lol yeah presume he was joking.

**DrJFF** · 17-10-10, 23:14

Hand 1 : i bet smaller on the flop like 650 cos i expect him to call alot of the time here and betting bigger makes all future bets bigger, i also bet the turn cos by checking your giving him a chance to bet and its going to make the hand harder to play for you cos you go into check/call mode and guessing a bunch unless you've seen how he played some hands,

i would check/raise the turn sometimes cos it looks very strong and its hard for him to have a really strong hand here, i'd make it 5000-5500,

the river for me is close between i fold and a shove, i think i would tank and go with my gut but a shove is kind of cool

Hand 2 : on the button here its a must you got to 3bet and i would make it small to induce weaker hands to 4bet, i'd make like 7500-8200, and call a shove,

as played i call the flop and fold the turn,

Hand 3 : pre is fine, on the flop its close to fold for me vs the described villian but i do call once and fold to any future barrells,

i reckon he has a queen more often than a 4 and in his mind is trying to define the hand and prob has a weak queen like Q9s or Q8s or something like that, shoving or raising might win the pot for you a bunch especially if you think he wil lay down a hand like QJ-Q2s, its pretty unlikely he has a 4,

the more i think about i put in a raise to like 23k or something on the flop and expect a fold alot and at worst you have 50k and a decent reshove stack

**Mellor** · 18-10-10, 00:31

Stop telling people that you are in for very little (you shouldn't even consider this imo, irrelevant) and that it's you biggest ever tourney

**max_power** · 18-10-10, 02:40

Meh didn't tell anyone that, we're all patched up as qualifiers anyway. There was a post on the live updates saying that about me, not like I was going round the room with a megaphone. Think it actually played to my advantage a bit anyway.

**Mellor** · 18-10-10, 05:25

Ah right, the fact that you mentioned it a few times thought may have bee na bigger deal than normal.

What's the crown like for live sats?
Gonna give some sats a go for the next while, prob try APPT Sydney and the aussie millions

**cardshark202** · 18-10-10, 05:41

Originally posted by DrJFF View Post

Hand 1 : i bet smaller on the flop like 650 cos i expect him to call alot of the time here and betting bigger makes all future bets bigger, i also bet the turn cos by checking your giving him a chance to bet and its going to make the hand harder to play for you cos you go into check/call mode and guessing a bunch unless you've seen how he played some hands,

i would check/raise the turn sometimes cos it looks very strong and its hard for him to have a really strong hand here, i'd make it 5000-5500,

the river for me is close between i fold and a shove, i think i would tank and go with my gut but a shove is kind of cool

Hand 2 : on the button here its a must you got to 3bet and i would make it small to induce weaker hands to 4bet, i'd make like 7500-8200, and call a shove,

as played i call the flop and fold the turn,

Hand 3 : pre is fine, on the flop its close to fold for me vs the described villian but i do call once and fold to any future barrells,

i reckon he has a queen more often than a 4 and in his mind is trying to define the hand and prob has a weak queen like Q9s or Q8s or something like that, shoving or raising might win the pot for you a bunch especially if you think he wil lay down a hand like QJ-Q2s, its pretty unlikely he has a 4,

the more i think about i put in a raise to like 23k or something on the flop and expect a fold alot and at worst you have 50k and a decent reshove stack

just about to fall asleep. think some of this advice is mental, but going to sleep now will replay properly later

**max_power** · 18-10-10, 05:56

Originally posted by Mellor View Post

Ah right, the fact that you mentioned it a few times thought may have bee na bigger deal than normal.

What's the crown like for live sats?
Gonna give some sats a go for the next while, prob try APPT Sydney and the aussie millions

Bad standard and bad structures but lots going on, they do 3 stages. First is usually around a $70 buyin, second like a $250 etc. Think it's 4 the millions. ANZPT Darwin is up next, been giving a few tourneys on spin on stars for it.

**Strewelpeter** · 18-10-10, 09:06

Originally posted by DrJFF View Post

Hand 3 : pre is fine, on the flop its close to fold for me vs the described villian but i do call once and fold to any future barrells,

i reckon he has a queen more often than a 4 and in his mind is trying to define the hand and prob has a weak queen like Q9s or Q8s or something like that, shoving or raising might win the pot for you a bunch especially if you think he wil lay down a hand like QJ-Q2s, its pretty unlikely he has a 4,k

In General, can calling one street with a plan to fold to any further barrels ever be a +ev strategy

On the hand in question though this has to be a way better plan.

Originally posted by DrJFF View Post

the more i think about i put in a raise to like 23k or something on the flop and expect a fold alot and at worst you have 50k and a decent reshove stack

**colquhom** · 18-10-10, 12:04

Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

In General, can calling one street with a plan to fold to any further barrels ever be a +ev strategy

On the hand in question though this has to be a way better plan.

Calling flop and folding turn is a perfectly viable strategy if you expect to be ahead of his range that bets the flop but not the range that bets the turn.

Also, i don't know why people are talking about raising flop in hand three, seems horribad. Why turn a hand with sd value into a bluff? I hardly expect villain to fold a queen, seems like a way, way too thin value raise more than anything else.

**cardshark202** · 18-10-10, 21:59

Originally posted by DrJFF View Post

Hand 1 : i bet smaller on the flop like 650 cos i expect him to call alot of the time here and betting bigger makes all future bets bigger, i also bet the turn cos by checking your giving him a chance to bet and its going to make the hand harder to play for you cos you go into check/call mode and guessing a bunch unless you've seen how he played some hands,

i would check/raise the turn sometimes cos it looks very strong and its hard for him to have a really strong hand here, i'd make it 5000-5500,

the river for me is close between i fold and a shove, i think i would tank and go with my gut but a shove is kind of cool

Hand 2 : on the button here its a must you got to 3bet and i would make it small to induce weaker hands to 4bet, i'd make like 7500-8200, and call a shove,

as played i call the flop and fold the turn,

Hand 3 : pre is fine, on the flop its close to fold for me vs the described villian but i do call once and fold to any future barrells,

i reckon he has a queen more often than a 4 and in his mind is trying to define the hand and prob has a weak queen like Q9s or Q8s or something like that, shoving or raising might win the pot for you a bunch especially if you think he wil lay down a hand like QJ-Q2s, its pretty unlikely he has a 4,

the more i think about i put in a raise to like 23k or something on the flop and expect a fold alot and at worst you have 50k and a decent reshove stack

Hand 1: I prefer to bet about 950 to 650 cos the last thing you want is to encourage a bluff raise.
Raising the turn would be absolute madness. I agree he should bet the turn again as it makes the hand easier to play and you are don't leave yourself open to playing guessing games. As played I would call river as there are just not many hands he can have that bet 2 streets that beat you, apart from some fd's w/ a J, and some floats which binked.

Hand 2: Def 3b pre, as played I guess I fold turn but it's times like this where you have to go with your gut. I wouldn't hate a call down here but it's a little thin and sucks when you're wrong.

Hand 3: Raising the flop/turn/any street would be off the walls crazy. You have v good showdown equity against his bluffs and trying to get someone to fold tp on a paired board is generally a very bad idea.
I either soul-read and call down or just fold and move on. I think these types of players will have a Q a lot, but you're there with him. If he's spewy enough then a call down is alright. Mainly because donking out with anything is normally retarded.

**DrJFF** · 18-10-10, 22:06

Originally posted by cardshark202 View Post

Hand 1: I prefer to bet about 950 to 650 cos the last thing you want is to encourage a bluff raise.
Raising the turn would be absolute madness. I agree he should bet the turn again as it makes the hand easier to play and you are don't leave yourself open to playing guessing games. As played I would call river as there are just not many hands he can have that bet 2 streets that beat you, apart from some fd's w/ a J, and some floats which binked.

Hand 2: Def 3b pre, as played I guess I fold turn but it's times like this where you have to go with your gut. I wouldn't hate a call down here but it's a little thin and sucks when you're wrong.

Hand 3: Raising the flop/turn/any street would be off the walls crazy. You have v good showdown equity against his bluffs and trying to get someone to fold tp on a paired board is generally a very bad idea.
I either soul-read and call down or just fold and move on. I think these types of players will have a Q a lot, but you're there with him. If he's spewy enough then a call down is alright. Mainly because donking out with anything is normally retarded.

been waiting all day to see how mental you think my advice is

**cardshark202** · 19-10-10, 03:29

Originally posted by DrJFF View Post

been waiting all day to see how mental you think my advice is

I forgot about it til this evening. Basically I don't like turning hands with decent showdown equity into bluffs, especially when its very costly and you can't afford to follow any raise up with further bets

**max_power** · 19-10-10, 03:41

Agree with most of what you've said cardshark, particularly on sizing. Betting 650 into 1650 on that board is asking for trouble imo. I'm pretty much at the bottom of my calling range in all three spots, which made a few interesting hands imo.

Anyway I ended up calling all three cause I like to call basically.

In hand 1 I felt his value range was too thin basically and was right. He had 5h6h and I scooped.

Hand 2 I called the turn, going with gut that he was firing again regardless, he checked the river and I checked behind. Absoultely insano to go for a really really really thin vb? He mucked anyway and I scooped.

Hand 3 I called turn and river to be shown the Qc5c, for top pair no kicker on flop and a turned fd. That was the hand that crippled me but couldn't bring myself to fold with my reads.

Cheers for the comments.

**AndyFatBastard** · 19-10-10, 14:15

Originally posted by max_power View Post

Hand 3 I called turn and river to be shown the Qc5c, for top pair no kicker on flop and a turned fd. That was the hand that crippled me but couldn't bring myself to fold with my reads.

Cheers for the comments.

I told yiz! I'd have gone busto with my turn shove then...

**Mellor** · 19-10-10, 23:43

Couldn't be arsed heading all the way to Darwin, no way could get sorted in 4 days,
If you see this today, could you check if there are any Appt sydney, or millions sats tonight, around 6-8pm, can't get on to PS here, and found a place where I can play online

**max_power** · 20-10-10, 02:01

They're only running sats for the APPT Cebu at the mo, it's up next. Think the millions sats will be on FT but not sure.

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A few hands from the ANZPT Melbourne

A few hands from the ANZPT Melbourne

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