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    Cooler Hand

    Rory has asked me to post this on his behalf. The full hand is over in the live updates so try not to read before you make your decision on this.

    John Keown 14k
    Wally 15k
    Rory 38k

    John limps for 100, Wally limps for 100 on the button and Rory completes from the small blind with 8h9h

    Flop is 10hJxQh

    Rory leads for 300, utg makes it 1k and Wally makes it 3k.

    Rory's action?
    "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

    #2
    ship ship mcgipp?

    make sure to bink the old Jh on the turn obv.
    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

    Comment


      #3
      Considering the stack sizes I'm happy to get it all in on the flop here.



      Considering we'll be left with circa 25k if we lose I don't mind facing a set or bigger flush draw for the lot.

      I have a feeling someone has AhKh & the other a set?
      You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

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        #4
        Id just get it in now, raising to 8/9k is a bit gay so id just make it 14/15k so it covers both players. The fact that we still have 240bb left if we lose make is a lot easier imo.

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          #5
          Sick spot,

          if all the money goes in you can freeroll 98 but i don't if wally will make a stand so early with other FD, will he get it in with JT, QT or QJ

          are hands like 99, TT, JJ and QQ in his range,


          i don't think you can do anything but shove or raise/call
          http://drjff.blogspot.com/

          Comment


            #6
            Scorch marks on the felt and ul if you don't end up >60K
            Last edited by Strewelpeter; 16-09-10, 15:48.
            Turning millions into thousands

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              #7
              Im shipping it here based on the fact that you stll have 25k left if you lose and the worst case scenario for you is if someone has AK of hearts , which i doubt as who in their right mind would raise with AK in this spot .

              Comment


                #8
                Nothing to think about here, get it in every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Very very rarely drawing dead and that would have to be 3 way allin v higher straight v higher flusdraw. Any other combination and you have a nice chunk of equity in the hand, you can afford it too.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                  Im shipping it here based on the fact that you stll have 25k left if you lose and the worst case scenario for you is if someone has AK of hearts , which i doubt as who in their right mind would raise with AK in this spot .
                  I'm never giving anoyone credit for AK in a limped pot.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ship ship ship..if he has you beat it's, as the title says, a cooler hand and you're never drawing dead.

                    After a quick stove giving a pretty wide range tbf (don't know the players involved) which includes 1pr+ straight draws with 1 heart (eg KhQx), 2pr, made straights etc and we're as follows vs this range:

                    Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

                    66,330 games 0.045 secs 1,474,000 games/sec

                    Board: Qh Jc Th
                    Dead:

                    equity win tie pots won pots tied
                    Hand 0: 62.120% 60.65% 01.47% 40230 974.50 { 9h8h }
                    Hand 1: 37.880% 36.41% 01.47% 24151 974.50 { AKs, AcQc, AdQd, AsQs, AhJh, K9s, QTs+, JTs, AKo, AhQc, AhQd, AhQs, KhQc, KhQd, KhQs, KhJc, KhJd, KhJs, K9o, QTo+, JTo }


                    ---
                    Pining for Wa'erford

                    Comment


                      #11
                      i know of wally but not how he plays. what is he cold 3betting with here on a ultra draw heavy board, that he also limps the button with? K9, two pair and sets?

                      UTG has KK btw

                      Comment


                        #12
                        3 handed and a limped pot. Hero should have the nuts and a strong draw if not. Lob it in there boss asap! Ul if villain shows up with K9 but rarely AK or a set imo. I couldn't imagine folding anyway and it's just, as the title says, a cooler if wrong.

                        Obv I have no clue who the people's names are above. Are there any reads? (not even sure if it's a fold with a read...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Caf View Post
                          3 handed and a limped pot. Hero should have the nuts and a monster draw if not. Lob it in there boss asap! Ul if villain shows up with K9 but never ever ever ever AK or a set (never) imo. I couldn't imagine folding anyway and it's just, as the title says, a cooler if wrong.

                          Obv I have no clue who the people's names are above. Are there any reads? (not even sure if it's a fold with a read...
                          FYP..imo
                          Pining for Wa'erford

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I know Rory lost the hand but I don't know who won it or what they had.

                            If it was heads up I definitly get it in but I don't think it's a simple get it in now hand with it being 3 handed.
                            If you ask yourself what would you do if you had 89os given the action I think the answer would be closer to a sick fold 3 handed. And if you had 7h9h what would you do? I think I would get away from the 7h9h hand. You only have a 9 high flushdraw. The gutshot straight flushdraw as a saving card is just lol.
                            You're up against 2 good players who are not going to inflate a limped pot without a hand so nut flush draw is a big possibility and a made straight with K9 is what I would be afraid of too. K9 doesn't want to see a heart, Ace, King or the board pairing so I would try and get all the loot in with that hand. Sets are unlikely but I wouldn't rule out a tricky limp with a big pair from UTG.

                            I'm not sure I like the pot size lead but tbh in this instance it might work to your advantage. The way the hand plays I think I can call the 3k which I think looks superstrong and fold if UTG shoves and is called by the button. If it's flatted by UTG too then shove any blank cards and c/f any scare cards. I think sets could possibly fold, maybe not K9 but you never know.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Id just call. I'd fold if it was unsuited (assuming the two other people are average regs). If you shove you make it hard for a worse hand to call.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                The main villain in the hand is Wally McCormack, he had K9 for the higher straight.
                                "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post
                                  The main villain in the hand is Wally McCormack, he had K9 for the higher straight.
                                  John Keown folded K9 too....... 100%
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                                    #18
                                    intuitively i would of said ship but i would agree that a call is better in this spot considering what hectorjelly said, just would have beef with people saying that wally is a good player, heard he was very average tbh

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Creasy View Post
                                      intuitively i would of said ship but i would agree that a call is better in this spot considering what hectorjelly said, just would have beef with people saying that wally is a good player, heard he was very average tbh
                                      Well to determine an average rating is very subjective and depends on who you compare him to but I think I can say with out to much fear of contradiction that if you get a group of 100+ poker players paying €550 in Ireland then Wally will be well above average.
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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Creasy View Post
                                        intuitively i would of said ship but i would agree that a call is better in this spot considering what hectorjelly said, just would have beef with people saying that wally is a good player, heard he was very average tbh
                                        In my experience playing against Wally I found him to be a top class player, but outside of that, he has had very consistent results both on and offline over the last 3 years. Far from average imo.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                                          In my experience playing against Wally I found him to be a top class player, but outside of that, he has had very consistent results both on and offline over the last 3 years. Far from average imo.
                                          fair enough, ill take it back, i think the only time i played with him was online and maybe i should not judge from that experience alone, i just had heard off one or two that he was a bit weak

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            If you jam you probably have a little bit of fold equity in this spot vs K9, depending on your image. Maybe even more if you raise/call who knows. Either way, AK is close to impossible so you have substantial equity vs everything, nh...

                                            Also, from the twice or so I've played against Wally live I have found him a complete nightmare to deal with (he's had direct position on me both times iirc) and with the results he has had I'm going to have to accept that he didn't simply card-rack it up against me those times and I just got owned, sigh.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              anything other than a shove here is bad. Effectively you have the nuts

                                              what I mean to say is if villains are limping AK/K9 then they deserve to be shot in both knee caps for failure of brain activation

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                When you flop the 3rd nuts this deep early in a tourney and there is a cold 3bet on the flop you do not "effectively have the nuts" and just because something is bad or you perceive it as bad is not a valid reason for ruling it out of someones range. Sounds like you would be happy to bust out vs K9 or AK here by making the wrong play for a 300BB pot on the strength of your opponent playing the hand sub-optimally preflop.

                                                That said, getting it in is the play here...

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Why do people rule out K-9 here? from the button or Limper.
                                                  Both players involved like to play flops (in or out of position).
                                                  Limping on the button here is ok imo.

                                                  If I'm on a table with Rory Brown still to act and John Keown all ready in the pot then I don't mind limping with K9 from the button. In fact I'd be trying to only play pots with them in position.
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