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Weird Spot pre-flop with KK, $215 WCOOP

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    Weird Spot pre-flop with KK, $215 WCOOP

    I have been reasonably active raising 2 or 3orbit, the original limper is solid winning player, have no reads or don't know anyone else,

    this is the 3betters 2nd 3bet, and first cold 4bet at the table and his first action since i got moved to the table,



    Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t40/t80 Blinds - 9 players
    The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

    BTN: t10195 127.44 BBs
    SB: t11305 141.31 BBs
    BB: t7545 94.31 BBs
    UTG: t8979 112.24 BBs
    UTG+1: t9571 119.64 BBs
    Hero (UTG+2): t14992 187.40 BBs
    MP1: t17225 215.31 BBs
    MP2: t10598 132.47 BBs
    CO: t10185 127.31 BBs

    Pre Flop: (t120) Hero is UTG+2 with Kd Kh
    UTG calls t80, 1 fold, Hero raises to t288, MP1 calls t288, MP2 raises to t720, 3 folds, BB raises to t1699, 1 fold


    i got KK and i don't want to fold, what would you do?
    http://drjff.blogspot.com/

    #2
    obviously you got to reraise here and try to squezze out mp1 and mp2 and create some HU action between you and bb. raise to 4k, if mp1 or mp2 ships and bb calls i think you could be in shit. if mp1 and mp2 folds and bb ships i insta call



    "Remember the time he ate my goldfish? And you lied and said I never had goldfish. Then why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl?"

    Comment


      #3
      oh if ever there was a time to consider folding them...

      Originally posted by DrJFF View Post
      this is the 3betters 2nd 3bet, and first cold 4bet at the table and his first action since i got moved to the table,
      having some difficulty with the description here, as in its MP2's 2nd 3 bet and first cold 4 bet
      or its BB's first cold 4 bet??

      Edit and whose first action is it since you got moved to the table?
      Last edited by 8611; 13-09-10, 22:00.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by 8611 View Post
        oh if ever there was a time to consider folding them...



        having some difficulty with the description here, as in its MP2's 2nd 3 bet and first cold 4 bet
        or its BB's first cold 4 bet??
        its the 1st cold 4bet at the table, it just so happens the BB did it
        http://drjff.blogspot.com/

        Comment


          #5
          OK tx, fwiw my thinking is as follows;

          if the BBs first action on the table is a cold 4 bet OOP then his range is AA AK KK QQ JJ, maybe AQ with each of the last 4 less likely. assuming he is in someway competent. and the bet sizing doesn't indicate incompetency and seems to want action. i don't think he's ever squeezing with that sizing.

          given your active history and MP2's history I am entirely unconcerned about him, and given your history he will play back at you / pay you off with worse a lot here.

          so its obv raise and hope MP2 gets involved. on the occasional times the BB has the goods he'll only take half your stack, and MP2 will occasionally pay you off for the balance anyway. perhaps if BB was deeper and we knew he was only ever possibly ever doing this with aces then we could consider thinking about not getting it in for a few seconds.

          as per raise 4k sounds good. unfortunately the 5 bet lets everyone know you're not dicking around but i think a push lets a lot of stuff get away. i like flatting 3 bets with monsters but I don't think this is the time to do it.

          as per what to do if either MP2 or BB or both 6bet, well, I'm never folding KK pre but that would prob be the time to think about it

          Comment


            #6
            Obv get it in and fist your life if he has AA...

            Comment


              #7
              If ever there was a time to fold KK pre I think this would be it. Like you could level yourself into thinking that BB could cold 4bet lightish smallish because it looks massive but I am not giving him that much credit. It's not just a cold 4 it's a 4bet over an EP raise of an UTG limper and a 3bet over the raise and cold call.

              It's entirely possible that they show up with worse for potentially drastic reasons and I am not inclined to fold KK pre but I think this is a fold with these stacks

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for the replys,


                in real time the way it happened and the speed of the 4bet i was like, he feels full of crap,

                however first hand i've noticed him playing,

                i nearly disregarded the 3bettor as he was determined to try use his position against me,

                so i figured if the 3bettor has AA fair play, but i'm quite willing to get it in with the 4bettor his sizing was a lil small too,

                he only has 94BB's, so i decide to make it 10k, everyone folds really quickly,


                it turned out the BB was a bit of mover as it proved over the next bit of play and played a ridic hand vs me later where he shove Ace high no pair no draw on a Ten high board with no fold equity, and the 3bettor 3bet me a bunch after too, so if this hand happened later i mite of made a smaller 5bet to induce something,
                http://drjff.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                  #9
                  When I looked at this first for some reason I thought it was 14K effective which would have been a sick spot and was going to say fold.

                  I dunno how aggressive these games are, but it does seem like a sickly sweet spot to cold 4bet bluff, and these are getting so prevalent these days in the games I play in atm against lp 3bets. I'd go with it for ~100bbs.

                  But this is fr and it's mp2 that 3bet, and it's a tourny so I dunno if that'd be right.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Weird hand. I'd be tempted to make a really gay raise here and hope that someone would be mad enough to shove over it. Something like 2800. Just enough to tempt BB in for a call with something like AQ and perhaps induce a spazzy shove from anyone. This would obviously depend on your table image, but if you're capable of making moves it could pay off.
                    "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                    Comment

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