Declaring your hand???

[HelloJellyFish]

Hi,

I need some insight in this hand. I have heard time and time again that you can not declare your hand while there are still betting on a live table...

It is the nonsense rule of, you can lie but never tell the truth about your hand, I am thinking of.

Now this is the second time it happened and the first time I just let it slide and folded my hand when some Muppet declared he had KK and turned them over when we all folded to him.

This time it was a bit of a different scenario.

Cash table 50c/ €1 blinds and €3 straddle , I am second to act after the BB with K9 suited, I just call and so does two more players. The straddle raise to €6, we all call.

Flop comes rainbow 3, 9, 7, if I remember it right. The straddle bets €10, we all call. The turn is a 2 I think.

Straddle go's and pump it up to €50, so I say to him, you must have a over pair 10's, J's or Q's, where he replies and says no he has A's in such a way that I believe him.

I then say it to everybody on the table that I am calling him, because if he has A's his hand is dead as it is the same as exposing your cards.

Everybody after me folds, turn is also a blank, I check and and he turns over AA and beats my K9.

I never liked the rule, but at that stage it was about 4am and I had quite a few pints in me, the only reason for making such a move and thought I was in the right and call for a ruling.

Anyway long story short, they award the pot to the AA's.

Now I am not to mad about the ruling, because thinking of it the next day, it is just crazy, how can you lie about your hand but not say what you really have???

When I had a chat with the Casino manager he said he uses Roberts Rules and the the "You can not declare your hand on a live table" is a Irish rule that he does not use it. He said I tried to win the pot on a technicality and sure I was, other wise I would have folded against the €50 raise on the turn.

I searched the net and could not find anything about this rule, so what is the right way of handling this situation??

Cheers

[Strewelpeter]

[tylerdurden94]

Bit of a strange hand alright, i always thought you can lie and lie and lie about your hand but if you declare your hand and it turns out you have that hand the hand can be declared dead.

[ghostface]

So you try and angleshoot to win the hand? Is that what I'm reading? Poor form on your part i think.

[HelloJellyFish]

So you try and angleshoot to win the hand? Is that what I'm reading? Poor form on your part i think.

I agree that if that is what I was doing it would be poor form, but all I did was make a statement at the time to prove a point. I would not have bothered either way.

It was not about winning the pot in a sneaky way, more a point of that there is rules and there is rules. If you play against them you can just as well take your Colt to the next game and go back to the dark ages of poker.

[Keane]

Are you complaining that a rule you think is stupid isn't being enforced strictly enough for you?

If so, why?

[curleywurley]

Hello Jelly Fish,

Don't they sting???

Bad form on your part etc.

IMHO, the rule is that in a tournament you can't declare your hand at any stage, but won't be dead if you do.
In a cash game you can say what you want and do what you want if the pot is heads-up. If it's multi way then keep your mouth shut, but your hand will still be live.
Any penalties that may be appropriate will start on the very next hand.
You shouldn't declare your future action either like "I'm going to call him because etc....".
I guess a warning and an enlightenment as to the correct rules in the club etc??

[Reaps]

I think a whole new word is needed for this.

I'm thinking something along the lines of 'Angleshot'

[HelloJellyFish]

Thanks for the reply, maybe I should have posted the question in this tread:

http://www.irishpokerboards.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5405

Now as for getting around on a angleshot, believe me it was not my intention. It is more a fact of getting fed up with people taking the mickey and bending the rules to suite. It is the same as two mates playing on the same table and trying to squeeze play anybody out of a pot and then checking to the river.

People know how to bend the rules but are not happy if you take a stand.

Now as for the sting, €50 was really very light, so I got away with no scars. I was just curios of the rule. You will see that I have not named the casino or anybody else. I also did not claim my play was right. Almost all of us play to play a straight game, but sure we do not play for charity.