Dealer awards pot incorrectly.

[NewApproach]

Ok, this situation has happened twice at my table in two casinos in as many months, with a different resolution each time.

Action completed on the river, player A announces 'Straight' and tables his cards. Player B says 'Yeah, thats good', and the dealer awards the pot to player A. Player B still has the cards, looking at them disappointedly, when another player beside Player B says, 'Hang on, you've a flush'. Player B is surprised but obviously pleased and tables the flush.

Few things:

The pot has been awarded to player A, and it is being stacked in his chips.
Obviously the dealer shouldn't have awarded the pot until player B's hand was mucked.
The 'one player to a hand' rule would mean that the player beside player B should have kept their beak shut.
Player B's cards were never killed.
Also, this was never a slowroll, if that is a factor
.
Now I wasn't either player involved on either occasion, but I found it interesting.

How would you rule it?

[Wolves]

Pot goes to player B. Player beside B gets a kickin.

[Reshipped]

Pot goes to player B. Player beside B gets a kickin.

So it's right to let something that's clearly wrong happen?

[Olie77]

So it's right to let something that's clearly wrong happen?

I don't see this as being clearly wrong, as the player b had the best hand he has to be awarded the pot. It is however clearly a dealer error as he should have as I keep telling my dealers kill all other hands before you award the pot

Obviously other players shouldn't be looking at other players hands either but at the same time I don't think most descent players would feel right trying to claim a pot with what they then know is the second best hand. I believe for all players unless they are fishing and missed and are ashamed to show their hand they should if in any doubt table their hand then the dealer can muck all loosing hands and pay the winner. Onlymy opinion and not everyone might argee

[NewApproach]

Does anyone think that the fact the pot has been awarded to player A make a difference?

[Olie77]

Does anyone think that the fact the pot has been awarded to player A make a difference?

I can see that he'd be a little upset and annoyed but I'm sure when it's explained to him he will be upset with the dealer and not only player B(don't think you could say he was slow rolling as it seems he didn't know he had won) but he would only be annoyed with the player next to B pointing out his hand to him. I'm sure he'd have to agree that the better hand must win

[Reshipped]

I saw two examples of something similar recently. One in a tournament and the other a cash game. In both instances the player's cards were turned up for all to see. The winning players actually thought they had lost (the tourney player had started walking out of the building) and the dealers missed the 4flushes in both cases until another player pointed out the fact.

In the case of the tourney, the losing player then started to berate the player that pointed out the truth.

Moral of the story seems to be that 4 flushes are easy to miss?

[tylerdurden94]

Players are normally encouraged to point out and help dealers to identity winning hands because sometimes they can be overlooked. So any player who gives out to somebody for spotting a mistake should just stfu imo.

[AndyFatBastard]

So it's right to let something that's clearly wrong happen?

The right thing to happen is that the pot is awarded to the person with the best hand.

[sligoboi]

Does anyone think that the fact the pot has been awarded to player A make a difference?

I think if the chips are being shipped at the time of the mistake being pointed out then it is easy just to pull the chips back and award the pot correctly. The fact that some or all of the chips have been added to player B's stack make this more complicated.

Would love to hear how some of the TD's that are on here would have ruled on this.

[tipp86]

Anyone think verbally folding your hand should mean that your hand is dead. I see a lot of my players do this and get irritated when i try get the cards off them. I personally will not award the pot to a player if he tells me the other guy is good and he can clearly see im awarding the pot to the other guy

[NewApproach]

Anyone think verbally folding your hand should mean that your hand is dead. I see a lot of my players do this and get irritated when i try get the cards off them. I personally will not award the pot to a player if he tells me the other guy is good and he can clearly see im awarding the pot to the other guy

If they clearly say 'fold', then yes I agree their hand is dead, but if it's something more vague such as 'Yep, you're good' or something then I don't think that would make the hand dead. However, if I was dealing I wouldn't do anything else until the hand of the person who says something vague like that is in the muck.

[NewApproach]

Players are normally encouraged to point out and help dealers to identity winning hands because sometimes they can be overlooked. So any player who gives out to somebody for spotting a mistake should just stfu imo.

That's fine if the player tables what they believe to be the losing hand, but it's another thing entirely if the player never tabled the hand, but someone sitting beside them looked into the cards and saw a winning hand.

[tylerdurden94]

That's fine if the player tables what they believe to be the losing hand, but it's another thing entirely if the player never tabled the hand, but someone sitting beside them looked into the cards and saw a winning hand.

Yeah true i suppose, its a little shady but wouldnt be the worst thing in the world.

[curleywurley]

The pot has been awarded to player A, and it is being stacked in his chips.

With regards to getting the right amount of chips into b's stack from a, we have to re-construct the hand.
This is easiest done working from 1st street down to the river. Usually there are some of the players who are actually watching the action, and you can usually get it spot on.
Pre flop there were 4 callers for €7=28
2nd St, checked around etc etc.
If a is an inexperienced player, he/she will often disagree with this and start screaming lol.

[curleywurley]

Anyone think verbally folding your hand should mean that your hand is dead. I see a lot of my players do this and get irritated when i try get the cards off them. I personally will not award the pot to a player if he tells me the other guy is good and he can clearly see im awarding the pot to the other guy

disagree.
If the player says fold and has the winner, it's sick, but, if he tables his hand or it somehow comes out that he has the winner then the best hand must win.
His hand is dead when irretrievable from the muck (imho).

Repeat infractions or any suspicians of slow rolling get punished by awarding the pot to the other player.

[NewApproach]

With regards to getting the right amount of chips into b's stack from a, we have to re-construct the hand.
This is easiest done working from 1st street down to the river. Usually there are some of the players who are actually watching the action, and you can usually get it spot on.
Pre flop there were 4 callers for €7=28
2nd St, checked around etc etc.
If a is an inexperienced player, he/she will often disagree with this and start screaming lol.

Oh yeah I know it's simple enough to calculate how much was in the pot, but does anyone think that once the pot has been awarded to a player, the hand is over and as such things like what happened cannot be changed/rectified?

[curleywurley]

Oh yeah I know it's simple enough to calculate how much was in the pot, but does anyone think that once the pot has been awarded to a player, the hand is over and as such things like what happened cannot be changed/rectified.

Imho, the hand is over when there is only 1 tabled hand, and all other hands are irretrievable from the muck.

[tylerdurden94]

IMO the hand is truly over when the next riffle has taken place. I think that once a hand hits the muck it is dead but there does seem to be some new thinking that if the hand is identifiable and can be retrieved from the muck the hand can still be good.

[JP Poker]

Assuming player B still has this cards in his hand the pot should be awarded to him as he has the best hand.

The player beside player B to get a 1 round time penalty if a tournie.

[connie147]

Assuming player B still has this cards in his hand the pot should be awarded to him as he has the best hand.

The player beside player B to get a 1 round time penalty if a tournie.

Hi JP,
Cant say that I agree with giving that player a penalty. Are we trying to stop players from pointing out pots being awarded incorrectly? Because if you penalise that guy, thats the impression that goes out. I see nothing wrong with a player ensuring the pot is awarded to the best hand.

Connie

[Guest]

Hi JP,
Cant say that I agree with giving that player a penalty. Are we trying to stop players from pointing out pots being awarded incorrectly? Because if you penalise that guy, thats the impression that goes out. I see nothing wrong with a player ensuring the pot is awarded to the best hand.

Connie

What about one player to a hand?
if the guy is to stupid to see hes the winning hand then tough
however if he tabled the hand the cards speak but this other chancer should not be looking into his hand or announcing it either