Paddy power rant

[IGOR BISCAN]

Hows it going lads just would like some views on this I will try keep it brief

Placed a bet with Paddy Power on Spain to win world cup and Villa top scorer at 14/1

All good, bet comes up except Villa is joint top scorer so know im not getting full odds.

Check my account and im expecting to get paid 4/1 on spain winning (odds they were at the start of tournament with powers) ....and
Villa was 10/1 at the start of tournament so my thinking here is as dead heat rules apply i will get quarter my stake on Villa at 10/1

Anyway check my account and am a bit stunned to see I have got paid on the whole bet quarter of my original stake.... in affect getting less than 3/1

Got on to customer service and told blah blah blah dead heat rules apply for your whole bet despite this being a double which i think is a disgrace
Actually worst off than if i had just backed Spain as a single bet at the bad price of 4/1

Lesson learned... stop doing these silly bets which your getting no value with in the first place and close powers account, open up a new account with Betfair

Rant over hope this has not been covered in another thread

[NewApproach]

Hows it going lads just would like some views on this I will try keep it brief

Placed a bet with Paddy Power on Spain to win world cup and Villa top scorer at 14/1

All good, bet comes up except Villa is joint top scorer so know im not getting full odds.

Check my account and im expecting to get paid 4/1 on spain winning (odds they were at the start of tournament with powers) ....and
Villa was 10/1 at the start of tournament so my thinking here is as dead heat rules apply i will get quarter my stake on Villa at 10/1

Anyway check my account and am a bit stunned to see I have got paid on the whole bet quarter of my original stake.... in affect getting less than 3/1

Got on to customer service and told blah blah blah dead heat rules apply for your whole bet despite this being a double which i think is a disgrace
Actually worst off than if i had just backed Spain as a single bet at the bad price of 4/1

Lesson learned... stop doing these silly bets which your getting no value with in the first place and close powers account, open up a new account with Betfair

Rant over hope this has not been covered in another thread

By giving 14/1 the double when Spain were 4/1 to win the world cup, they are in effect saying that Villa is 2/1 to be top scorer if Spain win the WC (related contingencies etc)

So I would have thought that a fair way to settle this would be that you are paid as follows:

e.g. €10 stake.

€10 x 5 = €50 (Spain WC part)

Villa part: €50 x 1/4 = €12.50 x 3= €37.50 return.


I have no idea if this is the correct way to settle this bet, but that is the way that makes sense to me. And it returns only 11/4 I see...

I may well be wrong in the above calculations though, perhaps TG or The C Kid could correct me if so.

[Guest]

Anyway check my account and am a bit stunned to see I have got paid on the whole bet quarter of my original stake.... in affect getting less than 3/1

Got on to customer service and told blah blah blah dead heat rules apply for your whole bet despite this being a double which i think is a disgrace
Actually worst off than if i had just backed Spain as a single bet at the bad price of 4/1

Personally I reckon this deadheat rule for things like the goalscorer bets etc is a load of mehole (not sure what it could be replaced with tbh, full stake at % of the odds better?)

but Id say the bookies would tell you (and be right?) that the above bet is NOT a double, its a special and so is a single

*If the bookies were smart and didn't want to piss off customers who may be people who are not regular bettors the should settle the bet at the 2 prices they used to get the 14/1
eg pay off the spain bit at the 3/1(or whatever it was)
and the Villa bit using the deadheat rule???


best advice you can get would be:

stop doing these silly bets which your getting no value with in the first place

[Raoul Duke III]

I think it's interesting that IGOR BISCAN joined in May but has waited until now to share his thoughts with us

[Bubbleking]

I think it's interesting that IGOR BISCAN joined in May but has waited until now to share his thoughts with us

sick colombo skills

[Guest]

I think it's interesting that IGOR BISCAN joined in May but has waited until now to share his thoughts with us

He was probably working for TV out in Africa during the worldcup

[IGOR BISCAN]

I think it's interesting that IGOR BISCAN joined in May but has waited until now to share his thoughts with us

LOL
I just have had nothing good to say since May so I taught I would keep me mouth shut

[IGOR BISCAN]

Personally I reckon this deadheat rule for things like the goalscorer bets etc is a load of mehole (not sure what it could be replaced with tbh, full stake at % of the odds better?)

but Id say the bookies would tell you (and be right?) that the above bet is NOT a double, its a special and so is a single

*If the bookies were smart and didn't want to piss off customers who may be people who are not regular bettors the should settle the bet at the 2 prices they used to get the 14/1
eg pay off the spain bit at the 3/1(or whatever it was)
and the Villa bit using the deadheat rule???


best advice you can get would be:

Agree with what your saying Elshambo just think its a disgrace that they can get away with this and technically be in there rights
Yes it is a special bet but its not as if there giving you great enhanced odds plus as a dead heat there means theres four winners...........in this case I be very surprised if anybody backed Spain with Forlan or Muller etc... therefore there not really paying out on four winners and only paying out on the 1 winner at a ridiculous low price.

Paddy Power pride themselves on these money back specials but in reality they make a whole lot more plus some from ripping of the joe soap gambler with bad odds and poor value as in this case

[Multidraw]

Paddy power were giving 22s on this bet pre tournament.

[IGOR BISCAN]

Paddy power were giving 22s on this bet pre tournament.

Well i got 14's on this bet the day the world cup started!

[Raheny Red]

Good write up about this in today's RP. 100s of unhappy customers across the UK and Ireland about the settlement of this bet......

[Starvin Marvin]

Agree with what your saying Elshambo just think its a disgrace that they can get away with this and technically be in there rights
Yes it is a special bet but its not as if there giving you great enhanced odds plus as a dead heat there means theres four winners...........in this case I be very surprised if anybody backed Spain with Forlan or Muller etc... therefore there not really paying out on four winners and only paying out on the 1 winner at a ridiculous low price.

Paddy Power pride themselves on these money back specials but in reality they make a whole lot more plus some from ripping of the joe soap gambler with bad odds and poor value as in this case

Its not just PP, this would be standard with all bookies.

Also for outright bets on top scorer you hardly expect them to pay the full odds on all 4 players do you.

Its up to you to know the way markets and payouts work in any bet you do, live and learn etc.

[Hectorjelly]

I made this exact same bet on betfair, I bet 7 euros at 10 (9/1), but actually got back €9.97

[ArmaniJeans]

Saw the Racing Post as well, a lot of the English bookies are now guaranteeing that you won't get a worse return than you'd have got if you'd backed Spain as a single.
I'd expect Powers will eventually see the logic in this.

[paddyh1989]

I had Thomas muller 40/1 for top scorer. But boyles also paid me out dead heat even though muller got the golden boot for top scorer. So i therefore though thats what they would judge it on but obviously not.

[Iago]

fwiw - Betfair would have settled this the exact same way and you would have zero comback as it is a p2p market so I dont understand why you think you would have been any better off over there with this bet?

However, I have sympathy for your predicament and I am having this looked at and will revert with an answer - it could take 24 hours or more though. It would have been much easier if Villa just scored another goal.

Feel free to look into everyone's predicament

as for the Villa piece, I was lucky my TV remote didn't smash after I threw it in frustration when he missed that chance in the 2nd half

[DAMO72]

LOL
I just have had nothing good to say since May so I taught I would keep me mouth shut

Now why o why cant i be more like Igor

[The C Kid]

Thank god the world cup only comes around once every four years.

[paddyh1989]

there is a disctinct difference between top goalscorer and golden boot. They have settled the bet correctly.

Well you get the golden boot for being the top scorer in the world cup.
But i take your point maybe im still a bit bitter about it ha.

[Guest]

Saw the Racing Post as well, a lot of the English bookies are now guaranteeing that you won't get a worse return than you'd have got if you'd backed Spain as a single.
I'd expect Powers will eventually see the logic in this.

read that a while ago
seems bluesquare settled it something like this

*If the bookies were smart and didn't want to piss off customers who may be people who are not regular bettors the should settle the bet at the 2 prices they used to get the 14/1
eg pay off the spain bit at the 3/1(or whatever it was)
and the Villa bit using the deadheat rule???

which is pretty sound, BlueSq are a decent bookie for the £5-£10 bettors imo with regard to settling stuff

paddypower/boyes/etc really should be offering me jobs seeing as im such a rock of sense

[tipp86]

Ok il join a PP rant.

Meant to post this earlier as it pissed me off so bad. More the the stupidity of the staff member than not putting the bet on.

There was a €5 matched free bet a few weeks ago in the sunday world bet €5 on first scorer in eng vs ger game and get free €5 bet on Argentina game. So i went in and put €5 on lampard for first goal and €5 on messi. The OLD woman in the shop told me i needed to put €10 on one of the bets and i would get €5 free on the second bet.

So essentially she was saying i need to put €10 on lampard to get a free €5 bet on messi.

Am i correct in that my total outlay should be €5 not €10 ?

PP shop was dungarvan.

[TommyGunne]

Something is clearly very wrong with how those bets are settled if bookies can pay out less on a double (it is a double, even though they are related) than one of the singles in the case of a dead heat.

Pretty shocking and retarded stuff. Whoever set up the rules for those type of bets should be shot.

Its so clearly wrong. While bookies are obv within their rights, it should be pretty clear what price this should have been settled at, rather than the price they are required to settle it at.

[Degag]

fwiw - Betfair would have settled this the exact same way and you would have zero comback as it is a p2p market so I dont understand why you think you would have been any better off over there with this bet?

However, I have sympathy for your predicament and I am having this looked at and will revert with an answer - it could take 24 hours or more though. It would have been much easier if Villa just scored another goal.

Will any solution that you have be for all customers?

I ask because i had the same bet as the OP,albeit, i got got it at 22/1 pre tournament.

[Angry-Ball]

Ok il join a PP rant.

Meant to post this earlier as it pissed me off so bad. More the the stupidity of the staff member than not putting the bet on.

There was a €5 matched free bet a few weeks ago in the sunday world bet €5 on first scorer in eng vs ger game and get free €5 bet on Argentina game. So i went in and put €5 on lampard for first goal and €5 on messi. The OLD woman in the shop told me i needed to put €10 on one of the bets and i would get €5 free on the second bet.

So essentially she was saying i need to put €10 on lampard to get a free €5 bet on messi.

Am i correct in that my total outlay should be €5 not €10 ?

PP shop was dungarvan.

seeing as we are all jumping on paddys back here

i played a $5 sng earlier today on ppp and lost
now i can't see how this could be fair on me, is there anyway i could get my $5.50 back...... i'am looking in your direction here now noel......... i mean is this a ppp thing or do i take it up with ipoker.

[Mellor]

Check my account and im expecting to get paid 4/1 on spain winning (odds they were at the start of tournament with powers) ....and
Villa was 10/1 at the start of tournament so my thinking here is as dead heat rules apply i will get quarter my stake on Villa at 10/1

Did you really think that? They are obviously related.
The double if unrelated should of been 54/1 with those prices. You were settled poorly, but you suggestion was never happening either.

I had Thomas muller 40/1 for top scorer. But boyles also paid me out dead heat even though muller got the golden boot for top scorer. So i therefore though thats what they would judge it on but obviously not.

Well you get the golden boot for being the top scorer in the world cup.
But i take your point maybe im still a bit bitter about it ha.

If you back the golden boot then you'd of gotten full stake.

And you don't get the golden boot for top scorer, you get it for top scorer with most assists.

[IGOR BISCAN]

Did you really think that? They are obviously related.
The double if unrelated should of been 54/1 with those prices. You were settled poorly, but you suggestion was never happening either.

Think you took me up wrong here Mellor
For example my wager is 20 euro on a 14/1 double
As Spain were 4/1 with powers when i originally done the bet i would get the full 4/1 as this was the outcome...80 euro winnings
On The top goalscorer Villa was 10/1 so as this is the only part of the bet that was actually a dead heat ( i know this is not the way the bookmaker looks at it ) i would get quarter my stake on at 10/1 i.e in this case 5 euro .... 50 euro winnings plus my stake back so a total of 150 euro for the whole bet.
Think this would be a reasonable compromise but could not see it happening

[Ste05]

Think you took me up wrong here Mellor
For example my wager is 20 euro on a 14/1 double
As Spain were 4/1 with powers when i originally done the bet i would get the full 4/1 as this was the outcome...80 euro winnings
On The top goalscorer Villa was 10/1 so as this is the only part of the bet that was actually a dead heat ( i know this is not the way the bookmaker looks at it ) i would get quarter my stake on at 10/1 i.e in this case 5 euro .... 50 euro winnings plus my stake back so a total of 150 euro for the whole bet.
Think this would be a reasonable compromise but could not see it happening

But if you did a double at 10/1 and 4/1, the odds would be 40/1 (even though AFAIK PP had Villa at 8/1 pre tournament, as I also bet on him at those odds)

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong here but....

You took a special at 14/1. So.... that means by your own posting you didn't put a double on 2 bets with prices of 4/1 and 10/1

If you take one of those odds, say the 10/1 on Villa, if the double price was 14/1, that would mean the actual odds on Spain winning the WC (with DV as top scorer) was 1.4/1 or the other way round, with Spain at 4/1, would mean Villa as top scorer (with Spain winning) was 3.5/1

so:
€10 on Spain at 4/1 = 40
(1/4 of €10) 2.5 on Villa at 3.5 = 8.75
+ €10 stake, equals €58.75 returned.

But one things IMO is also certain, the bet shouldn't pay out less then a straight Spain win bet, that's also mental IMO.

[IGOR BISCAN]

But if you did a double at 10/1 and 4/1, the odds would be 40/1 (even though AFAIK PP had Villa at 8/1 pre tournament, as I also bet on him at those odds)

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong here but....

You took a special at 14/1. So.... that means by your own posting you didn't put a double on 2 bets with prices of 4/1 and 10/1

If you take one of those odds, say the 10/1 on Villa, if the double price was 14/1, that would mean the actual odds on Spain winning the WC (with DV as top scorer) was 1.4/1 or the other way round, with Spain at 4/1, would mean Villa as top scorer (with Spain winning) was 3.5/1

so:
€10 on Spain at 4/1 = 40
(1/4 of €10) 2.5 on Villa at 3.5 = 8.75
+ €10 stake, equals €58.75 returned.

But one things IMO is also certain, the bet shouldn't pay out less then a straight Spain win bet, that's also mental IMO.

Sorry my bet was a "special" at 14/1 (not that special as i see other lads got 22/1 pre tournament )
So although technically its a double, Paddy power or indeed any bookmaker treat it as a single.
All i was saying was that a good compromise to this bet would be as above imo
I would not expect this and it be more out of hope, yes to think you get less here than a single bet is laughable and surely the powers that be can see this to if you pardon the pun

[cokedrinker]

I had this same bet on betfair at 14, and it was settled the same way at 3.5 :/

On the upside, my 3 top goalscorer bets were kaka @ 50, Muller @ 450 and Sneijder @ 210!

[NewApproach]

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong here but....

You took a special at 14/1. So.... that means by your own posting you didn't put a double on 2 bets with prices of 4/1 and 10/1

If you take one of those odds, say the 10/1 on Villa, if the double price was 14/1, that would mean the actual odds on Spain winning the WC (with DV as top scorer) was 1.4/1 or the other way round, with Spain at 4/1, would mean Villa as top scorer (with Spain winning) was 3.5/1

Ste you are mistaken there, if DV is 10/1 then Spain to win (with Villa as top scorer) is 4/11 in this bet, giving that the double price was 14/1, and if Spain to win are 4/1, then DV being top scorer is only 2/1.

so:
€10 on Spain at 4/1 = 40
(1/4 of €10) 2.5 on Villa at 3.5 = 8.75
+ €10 stake, equals €58.75 returned.

Even if those prices where correct, you would only return €2.50 of the stake in the last line, not €10. The other €7.50 is lost as part of the dead heat rule.

But one things IMO is also certain, the bet shouldn't pay out less then a straight Spain win bet, that's also mental IMO

Agreed it is harsh, but the rules in this case are pretty clear. I would be surprised however if most bookies don't settle it at 4/1, out of fairness to the customer. Alot of punters who are returned a measly amount will just get pissed off with the bookies, and its not worth the bad publicity for the companies.

[Mellor]

Sorry my bet was a "special" at 14/1 (not that special as i see other lads got 22/1 pre tournament )
So although technically its a double, Paddy power or indeed any bookmaker treat it as a single.
All i was saying was that a good compromise to this bet would be as above imo
I would not expect this and it be more out of hope, yes to think you get less here than a single bet is laughable and surely the powers that be can see this to if you pardon the pun

I think the confusion comes from the fact that you were adding 10/1 and 4/1 together for 14/1 this isn't the way its done.

The bet is a single, not a double. You can't have a double on a bet like that. At those odds the "double" odds would be 54/1 ($1@10/1 returns 11 and 11@ 4/1 returns $55)

Look at it this way.
Spain/Müller
Spain/Villa
Spain/Sneijder
Spain/Forlán

All the above bets won, and would of been paid out. These are 4 singles, and because it was split 4 ways, they all get 1/4 stake on the full odds.

[NewApproach]

I think the confusion comes from the fact that you were adding 10/1 and 4/1 together for 14/1 this isn't the way its done.

The bet is a single, not a double. You can't have a double on a bet like that. At those odds the "double" odds would be 54/1 ($1@10/1 returns 11 and 11@ 4/1 returns $55)

Look at it this way.
Spain/Müller
Spain/Villa
Spain/Sneijder
Spain/Forlán

All the above bets won, and would of been paid out. These are 4 singles, and because it was split 4 ways, they all get 1/4 stake on the full odds.

Whether you treat it this way, or as a double and discounting one of the parts of it, it still returns the same.

[Mellor]

Only when you base the odds on taking the win price and working out the top goalscorer "odds", which is hardly surprising as you are just breaking 14/1 into two bets and dividing by 4 (it doesn't matter where you divide, its coumpound)

[Ste05]

Ste you are mistaken there, if DV is 10/1 then Spain to win (with Villa as top scorer) is 4/11 in this bet, giving that the double price was 14/1, and if Spain to win are 4/1, then DV being top scorer is only 2/1.




Even if those prices where correct, you would only return €2.50 of the stake in the last line, not €10. The other €7.50 is lost as part of the dead heat rule.



Agreed it is harsh, but the rules in this case are pretty clear. I would be surprised however if most bookies don't settle it at 4/1, out of fairness to the customer. Alot of punters who are returned a measly amount will just get pissed off with the bookies, and its not worth the bad publicity for the companies.

Cool, it was just a stab in the dark, I'm very much a sports betting gombeen.

Question though, on this bit:
"if the double price was 14/1, and if Spain to win are 4/1, then DV being top scorer is only 2/1" Are the odds not just multiplied together or divided, so 4x2=8??

I just don't understand the maths on that bit, some illumination would be much appreciated?

[NewApproach]

Cool, it was just a stab in the dark, I'm very much a sports betting gombeen.

Question though, on this bit:
"if the double price was 14/1, and if Spain to win are 4/1, then DV being top scorer is only 2/1" Are the odds not just multiplied together or divided, so 4x2=8??

I just don't understand the maths on that bit, some illumination would be much appreciated?

The easiest way is to change the odds into decimals, so 4/1 = 5, 2/1 = 3 and so on.

So a 4/1 and 2/1 double = 5x3=15. 15 = 14/1. Hope I've explained this ok.

The decimal odds is the winnings and the stake combined. So say you have a tenner on a 4/1 shot. You win €40 and get the €10 back, which is €50 total. Same as €10 at 5 in decimal odds, returns €50.

[Ste05]

The easiest way is to change the odds into decimals, so 4/1 = 5, 2/1 = 3 and so on.

So a 4/1 and 2/1 double = 5x3=15. 15 = 14/1. Hope I've explained this ok.

The decimal odds is the winnings and the stake combined. So say you have a tenner on a 4/1 shot. You win €40 and get the €10 back, which is €50 total. Same as €10 at 5 in decimal odds, returns €50.

Ah yes!! Cheers.

[Angry-Ball]

any word on the $5 sng i lost yesterday???

can i get my money back

[Raheny Red]

I had Thomas muller 40/1 for top scorer. But boyles also paid me out dead heat even though muller got the golden boot for top scorer. So i therefore though thats what they would judge it on but obviously not.

Please say you did Muller halfway through the tournament and not before it started?! He was a whopping 750 on Betfair. BlueSquare, I think, paid out on him without the deadheat - they obviously had taken a handful of 5ers on him.

[Degag]

IF a solution can be found I guess it will be applied to all www.paddypower.com customers. There are no promises on my part, I am only taking it with the relevant parties.

Any word on this?

[Angry-Ball]

Any word on this?

yeah or my $5 sng that i lost

[Eggie]

sorry lads - i was out of the office towards the end of last week and i forgot about it. Will ask again tomorrow.

Was a compromise ever reached?