Full Tilt NL 5/10

[johnp]

Hi all, John is the name, new member here! Great site, hope to be a regular and try learn something!

Would consider myself a competent enough player but only against bad players

Looking for thoughts on the following HH:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) -

BB ($3.50)
UTG ($4)
UTG+1 ($11.12)
MP1 ($15.77)
Hero (MP2) ($16.41)
MP3 ($10.69)
CO ($5.91)
Button ($7.35)
SB ($9)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, J
3 folds, Hero bets $0.30, 2 folds, Button calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 4, 4, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.75, Button calls $0.75

Turn: ($2.25) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.25, Button raises to $6.30 (All-In)

Looking for thoughts on how I played the hand. Should I call the shove?

PS I had no stats/previous hands with the villain.

[Moneymaker]

Hi all, John is the name, new member here! Great site, hope to be a regular and try learn something!

Would consider myself a competent enough player but only against bad players

Looking for thoughts on the following HH:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) -

BB ($3.50)
UTG ($4)
UTG+1 ($11.12)
MP1 ($15.77)
Hero (MP2) ($16.41)
MP3 ($10.69)
CO ($5.91)
Button ($7.35)
SB ($9)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, J
3 folds, Hero bets $0.30, 2 folds, Button calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 4, 4, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.75, Button calls $0.75

Turn: ($2.25) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.25, Button raises to $6.30 (All-In)

Looking for thoughts on how I played the hand. Should I call the shove?

PS I had no stats/previous hands with the villain.

Wow, been a while since I seen a full ring hand posted.

Two problems with this hand stand out;

A) Your bet sizing is brutal. There is no need at all to be full pot on the flop, on that kind of board. I would bet around the 0.40-0.50 mark. Ditto the turn.

B) You don't seem to have a plan for the turn. You should before you even decide what to do, know what you're going to do if the villain does a certain thing.

As played, i'm snapping this off. At these stakes, the monkeys you play against can be in there with all kinds of stuff. Sure he could have some random 4, but he has a ton of Jacks which you crush in his range also.

[TommyGunne]

You could probably make it .35 pre too. Full tilt though, so I guess its easier to make it 30.

I'd make it 50 on the flop. Its the kind of flop where you don't need to bet very much cos its so hard for him to have a hand. Similarly, if you had air on this board, you want to bet small, cos your opponent will be folding so often. Seeing as you have a hand, the same logic follows, so bet real small. If I was in position I'd make it 35-40. Same goes for the turn.

As played, I'm snapping it off, and would be reasonably confident.

[bp_me]

You could probably make it .35 pre too. Full tilt though, so I guess its easier to make it 30.

Pot button would make it 35 pre. You can also set the bet slider to increment in small blinds.

I can't see the 5 on the turn making any difference to villains hand (unless they flatted pre with 55).

I call here despite frequently running into a over pair in this (or similar) spot.

[TommyGunne]

Pot button would make it 35 pre. You can also set the bet slider to increment in small blinds.

I can't see the 5 on the turn making any difference to villains hand (unless they flatted pre with 55).

I call here despite frequently running into a over pair in this (or similar) spot.

No way. Its way more likely imo to be a 4, 55 or a J, even allowing for combinatrics. We rarely see overpairs here imo.

[bp_me]

No way. Its way more likely imo to be a 4, 55 or a J, even allowing for combinatrics. We rarely see overpairs here imo.

Maybe it's just me so

[johnp]

Thanks for the feedback guys. As yee are probably aware I am still in the early stages of learning!

A) Your bet sizing is brutal. There is no need at all to be full pot on the flop, on that kind of board. I would bet around the 0.40-0.50 mark. Ditto the turn.

B) You don't seem to have a plan for the turn. You should before you even decide what to do, know what you're going to do if the villain does a certain thing.

As played, i'm snapping this off. At these stakes, the monkeys you play against can be in there with all kinds of stuff. Sure he could have some random 4, but he has a ton of Jacks which you crush in his range also.

I thought my bets were too big. My reasoning was that if guy hadnt a four then my pot size bet would push him out. Coupled with the fact that I use the 'Pot' button on Full Tilt too often to display aggression!

Regarding having a plan - youre right, I didnt think it through. I wanted to show strength, and when he called I should have really scaled back the aggression. Thanks for your input!

You could probably make it .35 pre too. Full tilt though, so I guess its easier to make it 30.

I'd make it 50 on the flop. Its the kind of flop where you don't need to bet very much cos its so hard for him to have a hand. Similarly, if you had air on this board, you want to bet small, cos your opponent will be folding so often. Seeing as you have a hand, the same logic follows, so bet real small. If I was in position I'd make it 35-40. Same goes for the turn.

As played, I'm snapping it off, and would be reasonably confident.

Thanks! Point taken on board.

No way. Its way more likely imo to be a 4, 55 or a J, even allowing for combinatrics. We rarely see overpairs here imo.

I was thinking of the four, but figured he wouldnt just flat call. The Jack didnt worry be because of my kicker (A).

Sorry if I'm killing the discussion too early, but you called it - he had 55. I called the shove.

My question now would be: lets say I took your advice and betted less on the flop and turn, yet he still flat calls.

To me this would put him on a lower pair (77,88,99) or a jack with a weaker kicker than mine. How can I avoid calling the shove? His 55 is well disguised no?

Because he only raises when the 5 comes out, is it not safe for me to assume he wouldnt/shouldnt be calling my raises if he had 55 before the turn of a 5 came?

Thanks!

[carlop]

I wouldn't worry about this hand, you were just unlucky that he binked a 2 outer on the turn.

You have to think in terms of what possible hands villain has in this spot, as opposed to what specific hand he has. This time he had 55, but enough of the time he'll have weaker jacks or weird bluffs and you'll scoop the pot.

If he flats your turn bet, bet most rivers for value. He'll call with weaker jacks and maybe with 66-1010 too.

[carlop]

Thanks for the feedback guys. As yee are probably aware I am still in the early stages of learning!



I thought my bets were too big. My reasoning was that if guy hadnt a four then my pot size bet would push him out. Coupled with the fact that I use the 'Pot' button on Full Tilt too often to display aggression!

Regarding having a plan - youre right, I didnt think it through. I wanted to show strength, and when he called I should have really scaled back the aggression. Thanks for your input!



Thanks! Point taken on board.



I was thinking of the four, but figured he wouldnt just flat call. The Jack didnt worry be because of my kicker (A).

Sorry if I'm killing the discussion too early, but you called it - he had 55. I called the shove.

My question now would be: lets say I took your advice and betted less on the flop and turn, yet he still flat calls.

To me this would put him on a lower pair (77,88,99) or a jack with a weaker kicker than mine. How can I avoid calling the shove? His 55 is well disguised no?

Because he only raises when the 5 comes out, is it not safe for me to assume he wouldnt/shouldnt be calling my raises if he had 55 before the turn of a 5 came?

Thanks!

Just to add on from my post above, there are a couple of flaws in your thought process here.

If the guy hasn't got a four, you don't want to push him out, you want to keep him in. You have flopped a very good hand and you want to get value from it. When you bet here, you want him to call you, because you beat the large majority of hands he will call you with.

On the second bolded part, at.5c/.10c don't assume that players won't call bets with all sorts of stuff. A lot of the players at these levels are going to be really bad and will call three streets with a high, gutshots etc. This is why its so important to value bet your strong hands like top pair top kicker.

[johnp]

If the guy hasn't got a four, you don't want to push him out, you want to keep him in. You have flopped a very good hand and you want to get value from it. When you bet here, you want him to call you, because you beat the large majority of hands he will call you with.

Thanks Carlo!

You are dead right, I have a tendancy to try push people out of hands even though my hand is good against their ranges. Its my default programming I guess! I will retrain my brain Im sure

[ianmc38]

I'd probably call but unless he's an idiot i expect to be beaten a ton here. Doing it as a bluff or with a hand worse than AJ would just be dumb.

[Denny Crane]

that he shoves after you went pot pot makes it less likely you're good here imo. I'd still call though.

[Moneymaker]

My reasoning was that if guy hadnt a four then my pot size bet would push him out. Coupled with the fact that I use the 'Pot' button on Full Tilt too often to display aggression!

Wait, what?

You flop a very strong hand on a dry board and you want to 'push out' your opponent?

You realise that makes no sense and is just some silly donk logic cliche donkeys spew out right?

There's only 2 reasons to bet in poker.

1 - To make worse call and maximise value.

2 - To get better to fold.

[johnp]

Wait, what?

You flop a very strong hand on a dry board and you want to 'push out' your opponent?

You realizse that makes no sense and is just some silly donk logic cliche donkeys spew out right?

Yep mate I realise...see my comment above about it.