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Live Hand Fitz 1-2 PLH

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    Live Hand Fitz 1-2 PLH

    This hand was played in the main game last nite in the fitz. Thought this was an interesting hand t post.

    Played is 10 handed. The button is in seat 9. There was no straddle on this particular hand (normally there is but seat 2 doesn't straddle). Average stack on the table is about 700.

    Play involves small blind playing approx 1K, big blind playing approx 1300 and hijack playing just over 600. Small blind has been playing LAG but also likes to limp-call raises with very weak holdings and is mainly a tournament player in the fitz and I haven't played much cash with him before. Would class him as moderately competent. Big blind is TAG, likes raising a lot pre in position, has been involved in a lot of hands so far but has always had the goods in showdowns and is a very competent player. Hijack has not been at the table long but is a very strong reg. Normally plays quite aggessive, particularly post flop, has a bit of a wild reputation and reads people very well but recently has tightened up quite a bit and is generally a player you would want to avoid in pots with very strong holdings as he is likely to put you to the test if sensing any weakness.

    Folded to hijack who raises to 7 and is called by small blind. Big blind makes it 27 and both players call (pot 81). Flop comes down 9h 6h Qs. Small blind checks, big blind bets 40 and hijack makes it 155 quite quickly. Small blind dwells and eventually flats the 155. Big blind insta-makes it 310. Hijack dwells for a minute or so before shoving for 585 total. Small blind dwells again and eventually announces call. Big blind quickly folds and flashes As Qh.

    Turn 4s river 8d (final pot 1560). Hijack declares flopped bottom set and small blind says I have the nuts, turning over Jd 10c.

    Comments and analysis on how this hand played out please.
    Last edited by NicoSanty; 01-07-10, 17:06.

    #2
    Your descriptions of seat 1 and 7 are incorrect.

    Seat 1:
    4bet folding on that flop is beyond awful. I'd never describe a player who did this as a "very competent player"
    The cold call of the 3 bet by seat 10 would scare me enought to probably fold TPTK here.
    I'd get it in alot on this flop heads up

    Seat 7: Going to war with the bare open ender with no hearts is very bad here. He also has no fold equity really so is just choosing a pretty bad spot to gamble it up.
    Last edited by danutpeddler; 01-07-10, 16:23.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
      [B]Your descriptions of seat 1 and 7 are incorrect.

      Seat 1:
      4bet folding on that flop is beyond awful. I'd never describe a player who did this as a "very competent player"
      The cold call of the 3 bet by seat 10 would scare me enought to probably fold TPTK here.
      I'd get it in alot on this flop heads up

      Seat 7: Going to war with the bare open ender with no hearts is very bad here.
      Everyone plays hands sometimes that they regret afterwards and can give no logical explanation as to why they did what they did. I'm sure he had his reasons. I wouldn't say he's not a "very competent player " just based on a one hand sample. I have played regularly with seat 1 and would make a comment like this lightly about any player unless I played I really believed.

      I was actually very surprsied when he flashed AQ, considering the action before he decides to 4 bet, I didn't expect him to just have TPTK here. Haven't seen him do anything like this before.

      Seat 10 had the open ender not seat 7.
      Last edited by NicoSanty; 01-07-10, 16:59.

      Comment


        #4
        putting in the seat numbers instead of the positions makes the hand difficult to follow. anyway, I wouldn't describe 10 and 1 as competent at all after that.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by phantom_lord View Post
          putting in the seat numbers instead of the positions makes the hand difficult to follow. anyway, I wouldn't describe 10 and 1 as competent at all after that.
          Point taken. Considering the description of the small blind and hijack and the texture of the flop, how would you have played it differently in the big blind's position, in particular when the small blind cold called the 155? Can we not expect some draws to pass to a 4bet considering how deep the stacks are?
          Last edited by NicoSanty; 01-07-10, 17:12.

          Comment


            #6
            Hey Nick, nice to have you posting! (think I have the right person!)

            Every decision by the small blind is bad imo, but the decisions postflop are real bad. Like the flat pre isn't terrible, and may be profitable (probably not though vs competent hijack), but calling the 3b there is pretty weak. Him flatting the flop raise is atrocious. Its a pretty clear fold. If he wanted to do anything he should just shove, but I think calling is really terrible. Pretty huge mistake. Its a really clear fold.

            The big blinds 3b of the flop is pretty terrible, in particular if he's folding to the shove. You can't 3b that flop and fold to a shove with TPTK. If you want to continue, a much better line is to just call. I'd fold though to a raise in a 3b pot and a call of the raise, but I guess calling isn't terrible. If it was just the raise I'd continue. Looks like he's raising for info or something silly. What is really terrible though is raising and folding to the shove. If you 3b that flop you really have to be calling a shove.

            Hijack obviously plays the hand fine.
            Foldaramus et foldarabimus

            Comment


              #7
              Seems like a standard live hand played by a two complete fish when looking at BB and SB.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by NicoSanty View Post
                Can we not expect some draws to pass to a 4bet considering how deep the stacks are?
                Well seeing how the monkey got his stack over the line with the bare open ender with 2 hearts on board, that should answer that question.

                Sure don't you know it's standard in the Fitz to call your stack off with the 6 high flush draw on the turn when the board is paired?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
                  Your descriptions of seat 1 and 7 are incorrect.

                  I'd never describe a player who did this as a "very competent player"
                  the gap between live poker mythology and (correct) internet analysis of how a hand should actually be played is wide indeed

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                    Hey Nick, nice to have you posting! (think I have the right person!)

                    Every decision by the small blind is bad imo, but the decisions postflop are real bad. Like the flat pre isn't terrible, and may be profitable (probably not though vs competent hijack), but calling the 3b there is pretty weak. Him flatting the flop raise is atrocious. Its a pretty clear fold. If he wanted to do anything he should just shove, but I think calling is really terrible. Pretty huge mistake. Its a really clear fold.

                    The big blinds 3b of the flop is pretty terrible, in particular if he's folding to the shove. You can't 3b that flop and fold to a shove with TPTK. If you want to continue, a much better line is to just call. I'd fold though to a raise in a 3b pot and a call of the raise, but I guess calling isn't terrible. If it was just the raise I'd continue. Looks like he's raising for info or something silly. What is really terrible though is raising and folding to the shove. If you 3b that flop you really have to be calling a shove.

                    Hijack obviously plays the hand fine.
                    Yeh its me I really enjoyed your comments about the Pokerstars bloggers after they posted that J7c hand . I think you got it spot on really. I actually said out loud after that hand that the small blind's play with the J10 was one of the worst I've ever seen. He heard me and said
                    "Well I was getting 2.5/1 on my money and I'm 3/1 to hit so math says call." If he truely believes that then I agree with Barry Greenstein that math is idiotic. He has to know given the action in the hand that he's in very bad shape. Some people really don't like folding.

                    Big blind was actually Colin (won 500 event in Kilarney). I asked him what his line of thinking in that hand was and seemed to expect some draws to fold with the 3b but I don't see 78h and draws like that ever folding here.

                    Originally posted by Moneymaker View Post
                    Well seeing how the monkey got his stack over the line with the bare open ender with 2 hearts on board, that should answer that question.

                    Sure don't you know it's standard in the Fitz to call your stack off with the 6 high flush draw on the turn when the board is paired?
                    That doesn't really answer the question Brian I think. I mean we should expect J10 with no hearts and maybe bad flush draws to fold here imo with a 3b but not a 3b min-raise. J10 should fold here easily but sometimes we forget to take into account that some people are just idiots.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I'm possibly still drunk from last night, but this just looks like a standard live hand from what I have experinced in LV esterday, Holland just scoooooooooooooooooooreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddd ddddddddddddd

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by NicoSanty View Post
                        Yeh its me I really enjoyed your comments about the Pokerstars bloggers after they posted that J7c hand . I think you got it spot on really. I actually said out loud after that hand that the small blind's play with the J10 was one of the worst I've ever seen. He heard me and said
                        "Well I was getting 2.5/1 on my money and I'm 3/1 to hit so math says call." If he truely believes that then I agree with Barry Greenstein that math is idiotic. He has to know given the action in the hand that he's in very bad shape. Some people really don't like folding.

                        Big blind was actually Colin (won 500 event in Kilarney). I asked him what his line of thinking in that hand was and seemed to expect some draws to fold with the 3b but I don't see 78h and draws like that ever folding here.



                        That doesn't really answer the question Brian I think. I mean we should expect J10 with no hearts and maybe bad flush draws to fold here imo with a 3b but not a 3b min-raise. J10 should fold here easily but sometimes we forget to take into account that some people are just idiots.
                        You should really learn to keep your gob shut imo when a player makes a bad play.
                        Would you prefer if all players played perfect poker?
                        try and beat the rake with a table of good players playing 1 2 plh good luck.

                        I had 4 months off live and made a poor play for 450 2 weeks ago and 3 players were openly discussing how bad i played it i was not impressed i know i played the hand like a donkey it happens

                        having these three experts tell me ima fish was annoying and i asked if they give lessons and if so id partake in them.

                        by telling the player with the straigh draw he played bad your educating him too which is stupid do you make your money off your expertise or by people making bad plays?
                        im guessing the latter
                        the next gimp that berates my play live im caving there face in with a chair

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                          You should really learn to keep your gob shut imo when a player makes a bad play.
                          Would you prefer if all players played perfect poker?
                          try and beat the rake with a table of good players playing 1 2 plh good luck.

                          I had 4 months off live and made a poor play for 450 2 weeks ago and 3 players were openly discussing how bad i played it i was not impressed i know i played the hand like a donkey it happens

                          having these three experts tell me ima fish was annoying and i asked if they give lessons and if so id partake in them.

                          by telling the player with the straigh draw he played bad your educating him too which is stupid do you make your money off your expertise or by people making bad plays?
                          im guessing the latter
                          the next gimp that berates my play live im caving there face in with a chair
                          If u really feel that affected by a few players telling u how bad u played that hand then u shouldn't play at all. If u cant take criticism of any kind about your play then u shouldnt bother playing. Many players mite never improve if they dont listen to criticism, even if its not something u wanna hear.

                          Telling someone they played a hand bad is not educating him. If I had told him why he played the hand so poorly and the reasons for it then I would want to " keep my gob shut " as u would say. I see players make terreible plays all the time but I never say anything cus I've learned to keep it to myself for my own future benefit but on this occasion I was really suprised and also I never said to him how bad it was, he overheard me saying it to another player at the table.

                          I dont see plays of this nature as much as say a year ago in the fitz cus players have tightened up a lot but it still happens. Anyone who thinks this is still standard in regular live games clearly isnt playing live cash much anymore.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by NicoSanty View Post
                            If u really feel that affected by a few players telling u how bad u played that hand then u shouldn't play at all. If u cant take criticism of any kind about your play then u shouldnt bother playing. Many players mite never improve if they dont listen to criticism, even if its not something u wanna hear.

                            Telling someone they played a hand bad is not educating him. If I had told him why he played the hand so poorly and the reasons for it then I would want to " keep my gob shut " as u would say. I see players make terreible plays all the time but I never say anything cus I've learned to keep it to myself for my own future benefit but on this occasion I was really suprised and also I never said to him how bad it was, he overheard me saying it to another player at the table.

                            I dont see plays of this nature as much as say a year ago in the fitz cus players have tightened up a lot but it still happens. Anyone who thinks this is still standard in regular live games clearly isnt playing live cash much anymore.
                            I have no problem with people i know or semi respect as players giving constructive critisism, but one was a taxi driver
                            And if you cant see how whispering into someones ear about how bad a player played his straight draw you need better glasses.
                            If its okay form say it out loud,
                            im a human being i have emotions not a stone some
                            one talking bollix or being rude etc angers me
                            and i enjoy poker very much thanks for the advice though.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                              I have no problem with people i know or semi respect as players giving constructive critisism, but one was a taxi driver
                              And if you cant see how whispering into someones ear about how bad a player played his straight draw you need better glasses.
                              If its okay form say it out loud,
                              im a human being i have emotions not a stone some
                              one talking bollix or being rude etc angers me
                              and i enjoy poker very much thanks for the advice though.
                              So your response as a human being with emotions is to contemplate caving someones head in with a chair? Lolz.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Saying anything about how someone else played a hand is as a rule scummy. Certainly when your outdrawn or whatever-its human nature but still pretty idiotic. Nice hand wp and move on imo. If I feel really really gruesome and they are desperate to discuss it I might go with the its your money you can play it however you want-even this is pathetic though.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Hey guys, thought i'd check out the strat forum. Grunching here a little bit but i think the BB and SB butchered post-flop sooo bad, i think the worst play was the 3b to 310 by BB, esp if the sb is capable of just calling down 500BB's w no showdown value. CO played it fine.

                                  Comment

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