Is this pure spew?

[Flushdraw]

Played the €60 freezeout in Naas tonight. It's a 9k stack with a 17 minute clock and had about 40 runners.

I was fairly active for the first 3 levels, playing 7/8 hands and winning them all. I was up to about 20k. The villain in the hand is atrocious. Naas have "a bike" meaning the first player out can buy back in. The villain limp called his way down to 4k chips and then called an allin on the river of J9955 flushing board with J8. he bought back in.

I've played 3 pots against the villain up to the hand in question and i've won all 3 without going to showdown, although i got 2/3 streets of value out of them all. I've since lost a few chips and i'm sitting avergae stacked.

2 hands villain played were to limp for 200 UTG and call a raise to 800. He check/called a cbet of 1500 on a 732 board....it went check/check on a 2 turn and villain led out for 2600 on a blank river and showed 52o

Another hand he limped UTG for 400. folded around to the BB who ships for 5900 and villain calls with J10 and is good.

Hand in question blinds are 400/800 and villain is chipped up to about 60k afer busting 3 players in 6 hands. the BB has 5900 chips. I have 17k

Villain limps UTG and theres 3 callers. I have KJ on the button. The BB is gathering up his chips and i've a fairly decent read that he's shipping here to pick up the dead money.

Here's where i may overthink myself. The BB can have any 2 random cards. He knows he'll probably get a call from the villain so they might not be complete garbage, but i dont think he needs a monster either. I think my KJ is ahead of both the BB and the villains range here so i'm happy enough to get it in against both seeing as it's a 20k main pot, and a 22k side pot. If the villain folds UTG, i'm gettting 5/2 against him holding KJ. The table has been limp happy and non of them seem to be what you'd call thinking players, so i don't think anyone else is getting involved.

I limp for 800. The BB ships for 5900. UTG thinks and calls for 5900. Folded to me and I think for a minute or so and ship for 19000. UTG thinks for about 3 minutes and says he's priced in and calls.

Thoughts on whether this is good play, or should i not be involved in the first place?

[Valor]

fine

[BuChan]

i'd say it's ok but maybe best to just ship it yourself.

[Flushdraw]

i'd say it's ok but maybe best to just ship it yourself.

If i ship myself, i dont think villain calls the extra 17k with a worse hand than KJ.

My thinking is that if i ship, i might get HU against the BB if he has a marginal hand, or else i take down about 4k preflop.

If i limp, and the BB ships and UTG calls, then my ship has 2 scenarios. I get UTG to fold and i'm now playing against BB with the pot juiced up by 5900.

If UTG calls, i have a chance of scopping a 45k pot, or maybe a side pot of 22k, both of which put me in a better position that before i started the hand.

I was talking to 3 people after the hand, and they all thought it was horrible play and couldn't see where i was coming from.

[peteypop]

sounds like your average pub game.Even so sometimes even the biggest fing retards get cards sometimes,most pub/donk players call with ace rag so be careful about when u ship.Cause they will call and suck out.

[Emmet]

If UTG is as bad as you say he is, surely you can just limp call the BB's shove, and play the hand as normal vs him?

[RoadSweeper]

Cant see much wrong, wp

[Flushdraw]

If UTG is as bad as you say he is, surely you can just limp call the BB's shove, and play the hand as normal vs him?

it did cross my mind, but my only bet on the flop if it was checked to me would be allin into a dry side pot. It would have to be a fairly specific flop to hit both of us, and for me to still be ahead in order to get paid off. Didnt think it was the best approach

[peteypop]

If i ship myself, i dont think villain calls the extra 17k with a worse hand than KJ.

My thinking is that if i ship, i might get HU against the BB if he has a marginal hand, or else i take down about 4k preflop.

If i limp, and the BB ships and UTG calls, then my ship has 2 scenarios. I get UTG to fold and i'm now playing against BB with the pot juiced up by 5900.

If UTG calls, i have a chance of scopping a 45k pot, or maybe a side pot of 22k, both of which put me in a better position that before i started the hand.

I was talking to 3 people after the hand, and they all thought it was horrible play and couldn't see where i was coming from.

Why do u not think he calls with anything better than than K J?? sorry flush never underesimate players in low level or high level tourneys,in my limited experience absoute donks will call with anything.Any ace high/suited connectors and to be honest any 2 crds cause they are donks and get lucky sometimes and that is what keeps them calling with crap.At the end of the day ireland isnt full of competent players so therefore they dont know when to fold,if the suck out on u ,thats part of the game,thats what keeps them coming back.
Therefore u need to pick better spots than K J, cause donks will call and beat u.

I amnt critizing your play in any way,but i do think with incompentent players i need to pick spots better.

[Flushdraw]

Why do u not think he calls with anything better than than K J?? sorry flush never underesimate players in low level or high level tourneys,in my limited experience absoute donks will call with anything.Any ace high/suited connectors and to be honest any 2 crds cause they are donks and get lucky sometimes and that is what keeps them calling with crap.At the end of the day ireland isnt full of competent players so therefore they dont know when to fold,if the suck out on u ,thats part of the game,thats what keeps them coming back.
Therefore u need to pick better spots than K J, cause donks will call and best u.

I amnt critizing your play in any way,but i do think with incompentent players i need to pick spots better.

You're doing a good job of agreeing with me, and then talk yourself out of it at the same time ;-) I said i dont think he calls a 17k raise with only 800 invested with a worse hand than KJ. he will call with a better hand, but i dont think he calls with K10,QJ, J10 etc.

If i allow him to put 5900 into the pot, i think the above hands can be added to his range and i have built a nice pot in a likely 50/50 or 60/40 position. I am trying to find out if this is a good spot, or if there might be better spots available, but i felt that the whole point about feeling like you have an edge at the table, means that you shouldn't be passing up +EV spots

When blinds go up to 500/1000, i only have 17bigs so i can;t really afford to wait for too many better spots.

[peteypop]

U have 17,000 chips at this stage,which at the 400,800 without antes stage is 14 rounds so plenty of time for play,Any ace is ahead so do i think it is +ev to push against a donk,no is the short answer.Do u i need to push at this stage,yes is the answer and is pushing with K J the wrong decision,probably not.
Sorry for condracting my entire paragraph there,but u need to get lucky at this stage to go deep,if i feel im ahead 60%(by my own insight into the table and how they play)of the time with with KJ i will push but i wont be surprised if i lose with that hand cause its a marginal hand.

[Mellor]

Pete, it's not 14 rounds, as the blinds will be up long before then. It's prob only 6 or 7 rounds full ring, if even


Tony, the play looks fine to me, i've done similar in similar games,
it's very high variance, but defo +EV

[TommyGunne]

Nice hand

[Flushdraw]

Cheers for putting my mind at ease folks! The funny looks you get off people when you turn over KJ in that spot and then when you talk to people and they are saying to fold, you doubt yourself a little.

I said i shipped for 19k, i meant 17k as i said earlier. It was 11k more to the villain and he made the call with 55. The BB had A8 and i didn't improve. The words of wisdom from the villain that "I had loads of chips and was pot commited so i couldn't fold" didn't seem to filter through to him that it's exactly the reason i shipped.

[Laois Hammer]

Ah i was at your table, never knew that was you would have said hello, and mightened of paid you off when you had that 95dd. I rivered a set of 8s after it was checked all the way down, never had a stack to do anything after this hand.

The villain your talking about had me baffled, his range for limping went from 52-AK. How does he show up with set over set then.

[Flushdraw]

Ah i was at your table, never knew that was you would have said hello, and mightened of paid you off when you had that 95dd. I rivered a set of 8s after it was checked all the way down, never had a stack to do anything after this hand.

The villain your talking about had me baffled, his range for limping went from 52-AK. How does he show up with set over set then.

Yeah i suppose you didn't know that 95dd is my EP raising range :-) I thought it was a nice spot to check flop and turn when i hit my flush and make a play on the river. I figured you or the other guy for at least an Ace and my raise on the river will look FOS. I had a feeling that you you were one of the only players at the table that might have paid me off, because if you run the hand through again (which you did), it's hard to see why i check an Ace high flop, K turn and raise a blank river.

I figured you for a hero call with an A or K tbh. You were pretty sick unlucky to run into set over set, especially as the other guy was calling off his whole stack with top pair. Even a blind squirrel finds the nuts sometimes! I'll say hello next time we're around