what have i got

[Angry-Ball]

just thought i would try this way for a change and see if anyone can figure out what i have.

once you decide what iam holding i would like to know how you came up with it.

also what do you think villian has and why

i have no history as it was only 24 hands in and he has been playin 16/8


Full Tilt, NL Hold'em Tournament, 20/40 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: 6,070
UTG+1: 2,950
UTG+2: 2,605
MP1: 3,000
hero: 3,675
CO: 3,295
BTN: 2,535
SB: 2,120
BB: 2,760

Pre-Flop: (60)
UTG raises to 120, 3 folds, hero calls 120, 4 folds

Flop: (300) 9 8 Q (2 Players)
UTG bets 195, hero raises to 575, UTG calls 380

Turn: (1,450) 3 (2 Players)
UTG checks, hero bets 800, UTG raises to 5,375 and is All-In

Results: 3,050 Pot (3,050 Rake)

[Aurora]

AIDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Had to be done.

Now, to the serious stuff ha. Id put the villian on J10s, and you have KQs ?? Just a wild guess

[Angry-Ball]

AIDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Had to be done.

Now, to the serious stuff ha. Id put the villian on J10s, and you have KQs ?? Just a wild guess

so you think he could have opened with with J10s utg?

and why would you think i have KQs?

he has a vpip of 16% and a vpip of 8% for EP so that puts 10Js just outside of his range so i suppose it is not impossible for him to have opened with it

[ianmc38]

This is possibly the most ridiculous hand history question I've ever seen tbh.

[Angry-Ball]

This is possibly the most ridiculous hand history question I've ever seen tbh.

why??


i would like to know what villian thinks i have
and why?

[Flushdraw]

why??


i would like to know what villian thinks i have
and why?

I sort of agree with Ian. There could be so many hands that you have and the villain can have the same. Once the turn hits, any floats could have picked up flush draws with adds lots more to both of your hands.

The villian can have anything really, becasue stats mean very little 24 hands into a tournament so you both can have the hands below but add AA,KK,QQ, Adx and a few other hands like 76d to the villains range

88
99
1010
JJ
KQ
AQ
J10
98
Q9
Q8

Far to broad a question when it has so many variables

[dannydiamond]

You have JQ/10Q?

The hands are way too broad to give any sort of educated answer.

He could have alot of hands including 10J suited, that you seem so unlikely for some reason?

[TommyGunne]

If you have Qx then lol.

[big_iain]

for the craic.

Villian jtd -
you tt,jj, kq, qx

[Angry-Ball]

interesting everyone would seem to diminish the hand of 10Js or 10Jo as my hand, yet it would be the perfect spot to play 10J more so than for him to open utg with it.

why does everyone think that i don't have 10J here?

is it the fact that if i had flopped the nuts, i would have slowplayed and just called rather than reraise the flop?

[blaaaaaaah]

I dont think u raise the utg big stack on that flop with just one pair n continuation bet the turn either, therefore i believe you might have set of 8s in this spot, big stack I believe mite be over playing kk or aq here.... I think he 4bets a set himself here on flop so I would go with he has an overpair looking for blank on turn b4 he ships.... thats my mad guess

[TommyGunne]

I dont think u raise the utg big stack on that flop with just one pair n continuation bet the turn either

Yeah this. This is what I was getting at with my lol if you have Qx. Only one pair hands you should have here are KK+.

[Mellor]

No its the fact that calling J10 in MP after the CL raises UTG is pretty spewy.
I now think you do have it.

Either way your range should be pretty wide on the turn.

[Emmet]

He has 44 and you have AJo.

What do I win?

[Tony3004]

you have 88 he has AJd

[Angry-Ball]

He has 44 and you have AJo.

What do I win?

a weekend in prague with hitchhiker and his many friends


ok
ye may now start to ridicule my play

i was holding 22 here but decided to take a pop at it by reraising the flop and representing 10J or AQ here, when he called the raise and checked back the turn i felt that maybe he had AK, over pairs, gut shot straight draws with a 10 or a J, second or third pairs and was probably a bit weary of what i had so i decided to take another pop at it, and duly folded to the reshipp.


i think my turn bet was a bit on the weak side just barely over 50% of the pot, hindsight and another 250 hands with this guy would tell me that an allin here would have taken down the pot, just didn't want to commit my entire stack this early in the game on a complete bluff with very little chance of it improving.

it was probably a very silly spot to get stuck in with in the first place i should have just folded the flop instead of donking of 40%of my stack. meeaahh but that was the pissed of kinda mood i was in last night

edit:
just to say a few people said that this was a stupid thread/question and maybe i put it up wrong. i just wanted to see what people thought given the same amt of info that villian had in this hand, its all to easy for everyone to start saying just fold on the flop when you miss and they are most likely right, if i had revealed my hole cards first.
thoughts relating to how i could have played this better are welcome, comments on fold the flop i allready know, while feedback is appreciated i don't need to be made feel a complete idiot for trying to bluff at a pot

tl:dr:
my cards 2,2
want to know why my bluff didn't work
i feel weak bet on the turn lost the hand for me
don't annoy me with stating the obvious

[Moneymaker]

lol

[3BetShove]

lol

Great input, ull go far

[Moneymaker]

Great input, ull go far

Thanks smart ass. If you've bothered to read my posts elsewhere you'll find I always have something reasonable to add.

I've just found this thread so ridiculous that 'lol' is all I can bring myself to add.

[3BetShove]

Thanks smart ass. If you've bothered to read my posts elsewhere you'll find I always have something reasonable to add.

I've just found this thread so ridiculous that 'lol' is all I can bring myself to add.

I think its unreasonable for you to think i have not bothered to read your previous posts, however i do believe that saying that you "always have something reasonable to add" and then adding nothing to the thread does seem abit ironic, DUCY?

As for the thread itself, I think, as others have said, that both heroes and villian's ranges are wide open due to the board and the very early stats involved, however it would be interesting to see this hand played with more stats on villian

[blaaaaaaah]

a weekend in prague with hitchhiker and his many friends


ok
ye may now start to ridicule my play

i was holding 22 here but decided to take a pop at it by reraising the flop and representing 10J or AQ here, when he called the raise and checked back the turn i felt that maybe he had AK, over pairs, gut shot straight draws with a 10 or a J, second or third pairs and was probably a bit weary of what i had so i decided to take another pop at it, and duly folded to the reshipp.


i think my turn bet was a bit on the weak side just barely over 50% of the pot, hindsight and another 250 hands with this guy would tell me that an allin here would have taken down the pot, just didn't want to commit my entire stack this early in the game on a complete bluff with very little chance of it improving.

it was probably a very silly spot to get stuck in with in the first place i should have just folded the flop instead of donking of 40%of my stack. meeaahh but that was the pissed of kinda mood i was in last night

edit:
just to say a few people said that this was a stupid thread/question and maybe i put it up wrong. i just wanted to see what people thought given the same amt of info that villian had in this hand, its all to easy for everyone to start saying just fold on the flop when you miss and they are most likely right, if i had revealed my hole cards first.
thoughts relating to how i could have played this better are welcome, comments on fold the flop i allready know, while feedback is appreciated i don't need to be made feel a complete idiot for trying to bluff at a pot

tl:dr:
my cards 2,2
want to know why my bluff didn't work
i feel weak bet on the turn lost the hand for me
don't annoy me with stating the obvious

wow ha didnt expect that hand.... i would not be into random bluffs like this v chip leader with a utg raise, ok to raise the flop but obv he has big hand n is waiting for a blank to hit turn to shove.
betting turn should be a no no for u no matter what size ur bet is as big stacks are prepared to shove for the risk reward of you not having a hand and if you do they still have big stack to play with... i see this alot online.

[Angry-Ball]

wow ha didnt expect that hand.... i would not be into random bluffs like this v chip leader with a utg raise, ok to raise the flop but obv he has big hand n is waiting for a blank to hit turn to shove.
betting turn should be a no no for u no matter what size ur bet is as big stacks are prepared to shove for the risk reward of you not having a hand and if you do they still have big stack to play with... i see this alot online.

yeah if i was in my normal mood i would just have folded the flop but in my pissed off and bored temperment i decided to make a play for it.
the guy is a reg and was sporting one of thoose iorn man medals on his avatar but his opr dosn't make him a big winner for the volume he puts in. what i seen for the next 250 hands that i played with him was that i was most likely pushed off the pot. any hand i played with him after that he was easy enough to bully but also quick to bully if the chance occured. based on this my play against him should have been to ship the turn, but it was all a bit early for such a big bluff.

[TommyGunne]

lol

In fairness, I think this is a pretty reasonable input.

Could you not pick a better hand to bluff with? Like this is pretty much the worst possible hand I can think of to bluff with. Well, maybe QT or QJ would be worse. Seriously though, try and have some equity when you bluff. Its not like his range is weak or anything. Like KJ is a lovely hand to bluff with here if you have it in your range.

There are a few important things to think about when bluffing
1) How much equity does my hand have when called? Bout 6-8% I guess. Maybe more the low side in this hand.
2) What do I rep? The more value hands you can rep the better. In this case, you rep only 88,99 and TJs.
3) How much of villains range does he fold? In this case, its not a hell of a lot. He's raised UTG to 3x and cbet a non-superdry board for your flop raise, and for turn raise, its much worse.

Those 3 things are the most important things to think about really.

Like it just seems like you randomly decided to bluff for no reason. Wait till you have a spot to bluff that is good.

[Mellor]

i just wanted to see what people thought given the same amt of info that villian had in this hand, its all to easy for everyone to start saying just fold on the flop when you miss and they are most likely right, if i had revealed my hole cards first.

This was the part I didn't get previously.
I don't see how this "exercise" achieves this. You said you wanted to see why your bluff failed, and how villain saw you etc.
But the fact is we don't have the same information as the villain. We are missing the very most basic info about the hand from his POV, his cards. There is a chance that he never gave any consideration to your holding as his hand was so strong, or maybe he read you soul and picked up on the 22 play.
Either way these are polar opposites and I can't see any beneficial gain to be had from looking at a hand, totally blind, in isolation. We would need a number of hands worth of bets, bluffs, and showdowns before we could have any sort of in sight into how you were viewed by another player.

[Angry-Ball]

In fairness, I think this is a pretty reasonable input.

Could you not pick a better hand to bluff with? Like this is pretty much the worst possible hand I can think of to bluff with. Well, maybe QT or QJ would be worse. Seriously though, try and have some equity when you bluff. Its not like his range is weak or anything. Like KJ is a lovely hand to bluff with here if you have it in your range.

There are a few important things to think about when bluffing
1) How much equity does my hand have when called? Bout 6-8% I guess. Maybe more the low side in this hand.
2) What do I rep? The more value hands you can rep the better. In this case, you rep only 88,99 and TJs.
3) How much of villains range does he fold? In this case, its not a hell of a lot. He's raised UTG to 3x and cbet a non-superdry board for your flop raise, and for turn raise, its much worse.

Those 3 things are the most important things to think about really.

Like it just seems like you randomly decided to bluff for no reason. Wait till you have a spot to bluff that is good.

all points taken on board here. but....
if you are bluffing the amt of equity that your hand has dosn't come into it as you are hoping that he will fold and it never reaches showdown, and if you do hit your card well then it just isn't a bluff as the best hand has won. if you miss the flop but bet out on a draw well that imo would be a semi bluff and then you hand equity does come into it, wheras i was just going on a stone cold bluff and it didn't matter what i was holding.

and tbh it was a spur of the moment decision to reraise the flop and when he checked the turn.... well he just suckered me into it really and i was foolish enough to fall for it.

This was the part I didn't get previously.
I don't see how this "exercise" achieves this. You said you wanted to see why your bluff failed, and how villain saw you etc.
But the fact is we don't have the same information as the villain. We are missing the very most basic info about the hand from his POV, his cards. There is a chance that he never gave any consideration to your holding as his hand was so strong, or maybe he read you soul and picked up on the 22 play.
Either way these are polar opposites and I can't see any beneficial gain to be had from looking at a hand, totally blind, in isolation. We would need a number of hands worth of bets, bluffs, and showdowns before we could have any sort of in sight into how you were viewed by another player.

yeah its hard to know whether i got what i wanted here. i stayed at that table for several hours after that and put up over 250 hands with the guy and one thing i would be allmost certain off is that he pushed me off the pot with his allin there. i guess what i really wanted to know was, is how did he know that an allin would make me fold but maybe its as tommy says and that the hand that i was trying to rep was just to tight a range and he took a chance.

and fwiw i didn't include my hole cards starting out as the thread would have been filled with "just fold, what did you expect with that crap, your a moron" and such like

[Denny Crane]

all points taken on board here. but....
if you are bluffing the amt of equity that your hand has dosn't come into it as you are hoping that he will fold and it never reaches showdown

that's not really true. if your hand has any sort of equity then your bluff doesn't have to work as often to be profitable. It also helps if you've blockers as it reduces the chances of his having the hand you're representing.

you can only bluff here so often, so you're better off doing it with a hand better suited to the purpose than something like 22.

[Angry-Ball]

that's not really true. if your hand has any sort of equity then your bluff doesn't have to work as often to be profitable. It also helps if you've blockers as it reduces the chances of his having the hand you're representing.

you can only bluff here so often, so you're better off doing it with a hand better suited to the purpose than something like 22.

like something with a 10 or a J in it??

[TommyGunne]

like something with a 10 or a J in it??

Yes for both blockers and extra equity. Something like KJ or AJ would be ideal.