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River shove,???

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    River shove,???

    Hand is from 15k gtd superstack on Tilt.
    No real history with any one in the hand. Villain here had knocked a shorty out a few hands previous 3betting pre in pos to take out the short 66.

    wondering if I played it poorly or made the correct lay down on riv? thoughts would be appreciated, please and thanks. I was thinking of calling but it's such a ridiculous bet that I wasn't too sure if this meant strenght or air. Would a premium hand bet this here?

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    saw flop | saw showdown

    MP2 (t4605)
    MP3 (t4975)
    CO (t9815)
    Button (t4910)
    SB (t4940)
    BB (t2640)
    UTG (t5630)
    UTG+1 (t6285)
    Hero (MP1) (t6290)

    Hero's M: 69.89

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, K
    1 fold, UTG+1 calls t60, Hero bets t240, 1 fold, MP3 calls t240, 2 folds, SB calls t210, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls t180

    Flop: (t1020) 4, 7, 9 (4 players)
    SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t600, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t600

    Turn: (t2220) K (2 players)
    UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

    River: (t2220) 8 (2 players)
    UTG+1 bets t5445 (All-In), Hero folds

    Total pot: t2220

    Results:
    UTG+1 didn't show
    Outcome: UTG+1 won t2220

    #2
    check the flop! as played bet the turn. folding the river is fine with no reads, you see some ridonkulous plays in the early stages of thos superstacks.

    Comment


      #3
      fwiw I'd fold preflop (or raise less) but as played fold the river.

      Check the flop & bet the turn too.

      Comment


        #4
        The decision on the river is the least of your concerns in this hand IMO.

        Of greater concern, questions you should be able to answer confidently, are:

        Why did you raise pre? Would a limp or a fold have been better plays? What are calling ranges for players (don't forget that UTG+1 limp called and had the option to re-raise to isolate)?

        Why did you bet the flop? What is calling range of villain now? What might he raise with here?

        Why do you check behind on the turn? What would villian bet with here?

        On the river you seem to be basing you decision on his bet size only. You should also be factoring in the answers to all the questions above plus any previous hands villain has played. You should consider how the river card fits in with the range you have assigned.


        Do all of the above and you will be snap folding the river.
        Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

        Comment


          #5
          Early stages of a deepstack against lots of fish, it would be criminal not to raise KQ, even from EP. I do the opposite of your line on flop and turn though. I have absolutely no idea why you bet that flop 4 way. If you do that here, then not vbing the turn is really bad. It just doesn't make sense.

          I snapfold river. FWIW, I expect to see 56 or TJ a lot there. He might be bluffing a bit, but you have to be good a hell of a lot to call.

          What did he 3bet with in the hand you mentioned? Why did you put in the irrelevant shorties hand but not the very important hand of villain?
          Foldaramus et foldarabimus

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
            Early stages of a deepstack against lots of fish, it would be criminal not to raise KQ, even from EP.
            Completely agree with this you should really be playing a wide range while nearly 100bbs deep.
            Pm for rakeback deals

            Comment


              #7
              Cheers for the comments lads. I know it's a woeful play by me.

              Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
              What did he 3bet with in the hand you mentioned? Why did you put in the irrelevant shorties hand but not the very important hand of villain?
              180 was bet by the shorty and villain bet 540 with KK(forgot to put that in), all in by shorty and snappage by villain.


              Thought I would rep pretty strong Cbetting here. This is a play I never normally do with so many callers and I wanted to see what people thought. FWIW played at table with villain for the next couple of hours and saw him make a similar move with the nuts later on. Would have a few less question on river if I bet the turn, riv could go c/c.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Caf View Post
                Thought I would rep pretty strong Cbetting here.
                You do, and its because you need a pretty strong holding to cbet here. If I was to pick hands to cbet with here that were airy, it would be TJ, Nut bd fds with bd sds, and then KQ, in that order.
                Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                  Early stages of a deepstack against lots of fish, it would be criminal not to raise KQ, even from EP. I do the opposite of your line on flop and turn though. I have absolutely no idea why you bet that flop 4 way. If you do that here, then not vbing the turn is really bad. It just doesn't make sense.

                  I snapfold river. FWIW, I expect to see 56 or TJ a lot there. He might be bluffing a bit, but you have to be good a hell of a lot to call.

                  What did he 3bet with in the hand you mentioned? Why did you put in the irrelevant shorties hand but not the very important hand of villain?
                  I agree in one sense but I think it's inadvisable to say it's criminal not be raising KQ in this instance.
                  An inexperienced player would have a lot of trouble in tournaments if playing KQ oop in multiways.
                  If his choices were to raise 4x in this position or fold, I would prefer a fold.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                    I agree in one sense but I think it's inadvisable to say it's criminal not be raising KQ in this instance.
                    An inexperienced player would have a lot of trouble in tournaments if playing KQ oop in multiways.
                    If his choices were to raise 4x in this position or fold, I would prefer a fold.
                    I would limp here. Raising at this level achieves nothing other than inflating the pot. See a cheap flop with a disguised hand and take it from there.
                    Last edited by Wombatman; 01-06-10, 11:16.
                    Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                      I would limp here. Raising at this level achieves nothing other than inflating the pot. See a cheap pot with a disguised hand and take it from there.
                      Nah, you really want to isolate on one or two players. Your hand really isn't disguised either, its not like people will go "OMG he limped behind, he can never have KQ here". Nothing wrong with inflating the pot either when you have 100bb with a decent hand against what is likely lots of fish.
                      Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                      Comment

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