Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What do you do and why?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    What do you do and why?

    First post on the new site. Fair play to the lads who went to the effort of setting it up.

    Here is a hand from the Deepstack on Sat. I'll give you all the info on the hand.

    Level 13 SB1500 BB3000 Ante300 - 10 handed - Avg Stack around 90k

    I'm in dealer Pos

    UTG fold
    UTG+1 ships all-in for about 25k
    Folded to guy next to me (stack of about 150k).
    He re-pops to about 40k. Then a bit of confusion cos he was short of re-raise amount. In the end its about 50k to me.

    I have about 55k and I look down at 99. So I have raise, re-raise and two more to act behind and pretty much all in to call

    Let me know what you would do and why. I'll let you know then what I did and what the cards were.

    #2
    My range for getting it in here would be JJ+ and AK. 99 won't fare to well against their ranges here, you will probably have to miss almost every over card in the deck or have to hit a 9.

    Comment


      #3
      I fold too. you still have circa 17 big blinds so its not desperation stuff just yet. you are likely crushed by their range and at the very best you are 50/50. Like Digiman said in the best case scenario you will need to dodge a lot of cards

      Comment


        #4
        you need to provide more info on the two villains but as digi said, assuming they aren't blind drunk or complete maniacs, their combined range slaughters you and it's an easy fold
        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

        Comment


          #5
          Very easy fold.
          "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for the feedback. It was only the second level on day 2 (redraw for seats) so I had very little history on all of the players at the table except one (not involved in this hand).

            My thought process at the time was to call the villain1 all in of 25k. I put him on a decent ace A9+ and I was happy to take on the race. When villain2 re-popped I put him on a big hand JJ+. So I folded quick enough not wanting to risk my tournament.

            Anyway villain1 turns over AQ off and then villain2 turns over KQ!! Of course neither of them hit and my 99 would have held up. I actually turned a straight.

            I was a bit tilty after considering I could have added 50% to my stack if v2 had folded.

            I suppose I just wanted to reconfirm that I made the correct move.

            I was wondering if I should have put them both on A high. Would v2 have re-popped to protect a monster? He probably would have called and see if someone else went over the top. Should I have thought more about the range of hands he could be on?

            As it turned out v2 knocked me out about 10 hands later. I am UTG with 88, call 3k. Folded to SB, calls 1.5k. v2 in BB raises to 6k. I have about 43k behind and reckon I still have decent fold equity. So I shove all in. SB folds and v2 calls in about 10 secs. He turns over AQ and duly hits a Q on the flop. He is not on my christmas card list.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by npr View Post
              I was wondering if I should have put them both on A high.
              not unless you can see through their cards
              "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                not unless you can see through their cards
                Yeah, fair enough. I guess the reason I am even questioning it is because I got to see the cards and what the result would have been. It would have been a bad call where I got lucky.

                How about the exit hand? I reckon there was a bit of tilt still going on given who was involved. Bad move, good move?

                Comment


                  #9
                  How about the exit hand? I reckon there was a bit of tilt still going on given who was involved. Bad move, good move?
                  You need to raise preflop. Open limping UTG is not good. Doing it when you only have about 15BBs and a good pocket pair is really bad. You will only ever get raised here and that will put you in too many tricky situations both pre and post flop if you call.

                  Raising gives you so many better options here. Firstly, everyone can fold and you can pick up the blinds. Secondly, you can get loose players flat calling and take the pot down with a simple cbet on the flop. Third you can get shorties shoving over you and have a good chance at knocking them out and chipping up.
                  "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                  Comment


                    #10
                    First hand is a trivial fold.

                    As for the 88, please, please, PLEASE raise pre. Limping is just awful. I'd rather fold if you don't want to raise utg with 88 here. Make it 7500 and if you get any heat you'll need to evaluate from there. Depending on the player that re-raises you/calls, their stack size, how they've been playing etc.

                    As played I don't mind the shove, but you should have never put yourself in that position to begin with.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      What moneymaker said, except that I way prefer jamming UTG with this amount of BBs. Its not like people think we're folding often after raising UTG with 15bb, so it strategically makes more sense to shove.
                      Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks for the replies lads.

                        Re Exit Hand

                        I agree that raising was the right move for this position. Limping leaves you too vulnerable to tough decisions later on and also you can try and get a c-bet through on the flop.

                        My reasoning was that there had been a bit of stealing going on and I had already decided in my mind that I was happy to go all in. So basically I was being greedy thinking I might get a few more limpers then a raise from the button/blinds which I would then go over the top of. I saw my table image as fairly tight so I reckoned I would get it through and if it didn't I was happy enough to race.

                        Not a standard play that I would make but I got the outcome I was looking for.
                        Last edited by npr; 08-02-10, 15:08.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Unless you can put both of them on AK then it's a fold alright. Plenty time to get your chips in yet, and you might be drawing to two outs here very easily.
                          Hey buddy, did ya get that thing I sent ya?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by lee_arama View Post
                            Unless you can put both of them on AK then it's a fold alright. Plenty time to get your chips in yet, and you might be drawing to two outs here very easily.

                            as lee said, if you put them both on AK your a good favourite to take the pot down, same vs A rag, even vs high cards your still ahead preflop so i think a shove UTG could of been optimal or as others said a big enough raise to force the weeds out and get heads up

                            EDIT: sorry i got both hands mixed up
                            Last edited by BrianByrne; 08-02-10, 15:38.
                            Disaster - Dreamcrusher

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BrianByrne View Post
                              as lee said, if you put them both on AK your a good favourite to take the pot down, same vs A rag, even vs high cards your still ahead preflop so i think a shove UTG could of been optimal or as others said a big enough raise to force the weeds out and get heads up

                              EDIT: sorry i got both hands mixed up
                              My bad. I just read the charter for this forum. More than one hand in a thread = confusion.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                just to disagree with everyone...

                                Hand 1: It depends on your read of the reraise - is it to protect a big hand? or to isolate with a weakish hand? with all the confusion etc maybe you spotted something?

                                A fold is the safer/more standard play, but if you read weekness a push is good here imo

                                Hand 2: there's nothing wrong with your limp according to your plan of trapping agro guys etc. - just learn how to win races imo!

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by bops View Post
                                  just to disagree with everyone...

                                  Hand 1: It depends on your read of the reraise - is it to protect a big hand? or to isolate with a weakish hand? with all the confusion etc maybe you spotted something?

                                  A fold is the safer/more standard play, but if you read weekness a push is good here imo

                                  Hand 2: there's nothing wrong with your limp according to your plan of trapping agro guys etc. - just learn how to win races imo!
                                  Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                                    What moneymaker said, except that I way prefer jamming UTG with this amount of BBs. Its not like people think we're folding often after raising UTG with 15bb, so it strategically makes more sense to shove.
                                    Yeah there's definitely an argument for jamming pre. It's probably better actually. Awkward stack size though.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Hand 1, easy fold. For all the reasons.


                                      Originally posted by bops View Post
                                      just to disagree with everyone...

                                      Hand 1: It depends on your read of the reraise - is it to protect a big hand? or to isolate with a weakish hand? with all the confusion etc maybe you spotted something?

                                      A fold is the safer/more standard play, but if you read weekness a push is good here imo
                                      Are you taking the piss?
                                      Care to suggest the hans in this weak range we beat?

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                        Hand 1, easy fold. For all the reasons.



                                        Are you taking the piss?
                                        Care to suggest the hans in this weak range we beat?
                                        V1 is shoving 8bb's so I don't have to argue about beating his range with 99?

                                        There are only FIVE hands in V2's range that beat us!! FIVE!!!! and if he's isolating with a weak hand, he has none of these hands

                                        The op has ~half average stack and the 6th best starting hand in the game


                                        snap fold = LOL nits imo

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by bops View Post
                                          V1 is shoving 8bb's so I don't have to argue about beating his range with 99?

                                          There are only FIVE hands in V2's range that beat us!! FIVE!!!! and if he's isolating with a weak hand, he has none of these hands

                                          The op has ~half average stack and the 6th best starting hand in the game


                                          snap fold = LOL nits imo
                                          here are only FIVE hands in V2's range that CRUSH us!! FIVE!!!!
                                          Thw rest of his range is flipping.
                                          honestly, suggest a range that we beat, or at least have the odds to call with

                                          We are only getting 3/2 and the weaker villian is short.

                                          And lol at think 99 is the 6th best hand.
                                          I suppose that makes 55 a top 10 hand.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            I fold the first hand without any great thought. My range is the same as digiman's here.

                                            I either fold or shove the second hand (usually shove). I hate having to call a shove with 88 (racing at best scenario) and I'm certainly not raise folding with that stack so it's shove or fold unless there's some spazzy mong behind likely to go mental with a smaller pair.

                                            15 big blinds is too big to shove without antes, but the presence of antes makes it more than acceptable. You're not shoving 46 to win 4.5, you're shoving 46 to win 7.5 which is fine.
                                            My poker blog - Doking around in cyberspace

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              For hand 1 its a pretty standard fold for me. I think i`ll only ever get my chips in here with ak qq-aa.

                                              For hand 2 i thinks a mortal sin to limp here with 88 with a shortstack. Its either a push or a fold everytime. I normally soul read the table and decide
                                              "Quitters never win, Winners never quit."

                                              Comment

                                              Working...
                                              X