Really standard MTT spot I have trouble with.

[LTL]

$24+$2 full tilt double stack freezout.

This is a fairly standard mtt spot that i still feel i consistently play badly.

Just been moved table have have no reads on villian just that he's a losing mtt player. The stack sizes here are why I find myself in trouble often and not sure about my bet sizing either.

9 handed. Blinds: 25/50.

Villain (2970) opens middle position to 150. Folded to hero (2450) in BB with QQ I raise to 525.

Flop comes A98 rainbow.

I bet 725. Villain flats.

Turn 6d. I check, villian checks.

River 4c. I check villain shoves, I fold, after spewing 1250 of my 2450 stack.

I hate my lead on the flop but feel that check/folding is so weak. Is this wrong?

Bet sizing aswell given stacks leaves me with little option but to either check fold turn or effectively turn my hand into a bluff and shove.

Advice on all streets apprectiated and on my betsizing.

[gorrrr72]

Preflop I'd probably make it 425.
As played check/fold flop.

If you know you are bluffing then it won't work as even a bad ace reluctantly calls your shove.
I can't see him floating if he missed unless he's totally retarded. If he has 10's or Jacks he would have to put you on exactly QQ,KK.

I would just shut down when he flats your lead.
But tbh I wouldn't lead in the first place. Check folding is only weak when stacks are playable in relation to the pot. In this spot I think it's best though.

[pgodkin]

why not check/call lead turn! FTW

I think the way u play it means he has to shove to get u to fold as any reasonable bet by him on the river is going to get looked up!

i would def start the flop play by checking! then depending what he does make my play over him! if he is a weak player the first thing he wil think is "well if he has an Ace why is he betting!"

[TommyGunne]

As gorrrr said, making it 425 pre is much better, and betting the flop is pointless. Obv fold now.

[cardshark202]

ehhhh why is making it 425 better here?? 525 is fine. I would just bet less on the flop, like 500-575. I would bet/fold as I don't think he will try and bluff-raise very often but he can peel light when you 1/2 pot it and it can help you get to showdown cheaper vs a lot of his range. I hate checking flop as it sucks to fold when you have no idea if he likes to stab in spots like this. Once he calls flop I try to check it down.
EDIT: Re-reading and seeing stack sizes, this line is kind of awkward and gives a flop c/f more weight...

[tipp86]

Pretty much what cardshark say i think pre is fine. Again as he said half the pot c bet on flop would be fine. I give up on the hand after he calls i think.

[gorrrr72]

Pretty much what cardshark say i think pre is fine. Again as he said half the pot c bet on flop would be fine. I give up on the hand after he calls i think.

The reason for the lower preflop reraise is so you can bet/fold the flop a lot easier. With 1125 in the pot pre then it's costing 560 for your half-pot bet. So 1085 in total lost if he flats/raises on the flop and you have to give up.

By making it 425 preflop you have a total pot of 925 so a half-pot lead is 415 for a total loss of 840 if you have to give up.
The same hands call the reraise preflop but it costs you less to get the information when you are outflopped.

[scouser in dub]

The reason for the lower preflop reraise is so you can bet/fold the flop a lot easier. With 1125 in the pot pre then it's costing 560 for your half-pot bet. So 1085 in total lost if he flats/raises on the flop and you have to give up.

By making it 425 preflop you have a total pot of 925 so a half-pot lead is 415 for a total loss of 840 if you have to give up.
The same hands call the reraise preflop but it costs you less to get the information when you are outflopped.

conversely we get much more value from villain when he calls the 525 pre and when he peels a 9 high flop. We are raising for value we expect to win the pot > 50% of the time and so if we expect villain to call the same range for 425 as 525 then we win more with the larger bet.

there's arguments for both.

[Caf]

I'm with what gorrrr and TommyGunne said.

Sometimes(rarely) I'll flat pre and c/r or c/c flop. But I'm sure this isn't the correct way to play the hand.

[gorrrr72]

conversely we get much more value from villain when he calls the 525 pre and when he peels a 9 high flop. We are raising for value we expect to win the pot > 50% of the time and so if we expect villain to call the same range for 425 as 525 then we win more with the larger bet.

there's arguments for both.

Yes, I agree with you. If you can get him to call all in with AK preflop even better. You win more than 50% of the time.
But you need to have a plan for when overcards hit, that plan has to be in relation to the pot size and both stack sizes. If both stacks are 4500 or more for example, then 525 is perfect. With 2.5k and 3k the larger raise makes post flop play very difficult.

[tipp86]

Gorr i think you make a valid point and playing it your way is fine imo.

I also think the way it was played pre is fine tho.

Guess there is a couple of different ways to play every hand.

[TommyGunne]

Actually thought we had position. Raise size is fine then. I'd be making it about 425 IP, and being pretty happy that unless there were exceptional circumstances that this is best.

[LTL]

Appreciate the feedback.

I personally don't mind my pf bet sizing here against an unknown villian and i think the bet sizing is fairly standard playing oop from the BB.

I probably think that c/f the flop is the best of 3 bad options given stacks here, just hate doing it ,but with no reads it's hard to play this spot well imo.

Even with check folding or checking the turn (shud we get there), I'll have to fold the best hand to presure on the turn a lot because my line will look super weak should i check the turn aswell and a capable villain will take advantage of this.

Is it also agreed that if the flop goes check/check, I should be check folding the turn?

[ianmc38]

Preflop is completely fine. Bet fold flop, but id bet less, I think 725 is a bit too big.