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    Free bet scam?

    tl;dr

    I'm not overly familiar with free bets, is this not unusual or is it just complete nonsense?


    I deposited €87.50 into a betting site called youwin.com (licenced out of Malta) with a view to taking advantage of their 4/1 on Germany for the Euros (which was bigger than anyone else's price ).

    I tried to place the bet but only €24 was placed (no pre-warning or option, it just took a bet of €24). So far so annoying. This was June 7th.


    I tried withdrawing, they responded reminding me I had a free bet:

    Dear Customer,

    Kindly note that your withdrawal request has been cancelled due to the Terms and Conditions of your latest bonus.

    You will either need to forfeit your bonus and winnings to proceed with your withdrawal, or complete the turn over requirements as per the promotion.

    Please let us now if you wish to remove your bonus and winnings so you can request your withdrawal once again.
    Originally posted by From me to them
    Hi

    Can you explain what the bonus is? I wasn't aware of it.

    Thanks,
    <me>
    Dear <me>,

    Thank you for your email.

    We would like to inform you that you received €24 as part of our Welcome Bonus, which is credited automatically after your first bet.

    You can decide to forfeit this bonus and continue with your withdrawal request after 3 days of registration of your account (the 10th) or use your bonus and complete its turnover requirements first. The turnover would be the qualifying bet + the bonus 5 times at odds of 1.8 or higher. That is 25+25= 50 x5 = 250€

    You can find all the details of this promotion here: http://www.youwin.com/en/promotions/...02-26-bonus-en
    I threw the free bet on a Euro game. It lost.

    I tried to withdraw the 33.50 in my account (which is money left over from my initial deposit as they had such a retarded low limit for their betting market).

    Dear Customer,

    Kindly note that your withdrawal request has been cancelled due to the Terms and Conditions of your latest bonus.

    You will either need to forfeit your bonus and winnings to proceed with your withdrawal, or complete the turn over requirements as per the promotion.

    Please let us now if you wish to remove your bonus and winnings so you can request your withdrawal once again.

    We thank you for your understanding and stay at your disposal should you have any question.

    Best regards,



    Customer Care Agent
    Bet online on best odds for NFL & sports with Youwin, The Home of Betting. Visit us now for sports betting, poker games, online casino, and slot games. Up to 100 CAD Welcome Bonus.

    Help us youwin.com can be even better! https://www.research.net/s/wecareaboutyou
    Originally posted by me to them
    I used my bonus and lost, no?
    Dear <name>,

    Kindly note that your withdrawal request has been cancelled because
    you still need to fulfil the Welcome Bonus requirements.

    The qualifying bet plus the free bet received must be turned over 5
    times at odds of 1.8 or higher before requesting a withdrawal as
    stated in the Terms and Conditions of this promotion:

    Bet online on best odds for NFL & sports with Youwin, The Home of Betting. Visit us now for sports betting, poker games, online casino, and slot games. Up to 100 CAD Welcome Bonus.

    [1]

    As per above you will have to turn over 240€ at odds of 1.8 or
    higher before requesting your next withdrawal. Alternatively we can
    remove the amount of the Free bet of 24€ received from your Main balance so
    that you can continue with your withdrawal request.

    If you need any further information please do not hesitate to contact
    us.

    Kind Regards,

    Links:
    ------
    [1]
    Bet online on best odds for NFL & sports with Youwin, The Home of Betting. Visit us now for sports betting, poker games, online casino, and slot games. Up to 100 CAD Welcome Bonus.




    Customer Care Agent
    Bet online on best odds for NFL & sports with Youwin, The Home of Betting. Visit us now for sports betting, poker games, online casino, and slot games. Up to 100 CAD Welcome Bonus.

    Help us youwin.com can be even better! https://www.research.net/s/wecareaboutyou
    I still haven't copped on what the fuck they are at... I just think they are retards.
    Originally posted by me to them
    But I already lost on the first attempt with the free bet?
    Dear Paul,

    Thank you for your email.


    Please note that the free bets must be turned over regardless of the result of your bets, whether you win or lose.

    Therefore, you will need to turnover the required amount.

    Should you have further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

    Best regards,

    Selenia


    Customer Care Agent
    Bet online on best odds for NFL & sports with Youwin, The Home of Betting. Visit us now for sports betting, poker games, online casino, and slot games. Up to 100 CAD Welcome Bonus.

    Help us youwin.com can be even better! https://www.research.net/s/wecareaboutyou

    Originally posted by From Me To Them
    What are you on about? It was a free bet, it lost. There is nothing to turn over.

    Please process my withdrawal immediately.
    Dear Paul,

    Thank you for contacting youwin.com Support.

    Kindly note that since you haveplaced your freebet you are accepting the terms and conditions, including the rollover.

    The qualifying bet plus the free bet received must be turned over 5
    times at odds of 1.8 or higher before requesting a withdrawal as
    stated in the Terms and Conditions of this promotion:

    Bet online on best odds for NFL & sports with Youwin, The Home of Betting. Visit us now for sports betting, poker games, online casino, and slot games. Up to 100 CAD Welcome Bonus.


    Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further assistance.

    Best regards,

    David


    Customer Care Agent
    Bet online on best odds for NFL & sports with Youwin, The Home of Betting. Visit us now for sports betting, poker games, online casino, and slot games. Up to 100 CAD Welcome Bonus.

    Help us youwin.com can be even better! https://www.research.net/s/wecareaboutyou

    I get pissed off. The link above that they provided wasn't working (which I told them via email, it seems it is now fixed). The info I posted before was off another website about their free bet but it seems they have changed it to the above link at some point, probably before I took their 'FREE BET'.

    Originally posted by From me to them
    Hello,

    This needs to be resolved within the next email as it is getting silly. You have the wrong end of the stick.

    Firstly, the link gave is a broken link.

    I deposited €57.50 into my account, I placed a bet on Germany to win the Euros (pathetically the max I was allowed wager was a mere €24).

    I have €33.50 left in my account, this money is money I deposited. It is not WINNINGS from the free bet.

    Here is the relevant clause of the free bet:

    6. In order to withdraw the winnings from free bets, you must first wager an amount of five times the winnings. For example, if you win €25 from a free bet redemption, you must wager a further €125 (20€ x 5) at odds of 1.8 or higher before you can withdraw the €25 winnings. If you request a withdrawal before meeting the wagering requirements, we will notify you that you have not met the requirements. You can chose to proceed and still withdraw the remaining amount in your balance (i.e. your balance minus free bet winnings), however you will forfeit the winnings from the free bet redemption (€25 in the above example).

    You are simply incorrect on your own free bet terms.
    There is not a single bookmaker who operates what you have described, including you.
    What you are suggesting would not be a free bet, it would be a straight forward mugging.

    Now please consult with someone who understands how utterly ridiculous this series of emails I have had to endure are.


    Yours in wait.
    <my name>
    I haven't logged into my email in days as I am so pissed off, I don't like being robbed and not being able to do a thing about it.

    Logged in now. I get stonewalled further:

    Dear <name>,

    Thank you for contacting youwin.com Support.

    I would like to inform you that after looking into your account our records show that you have placed a bet of 24 EUR from your free balance. By doing so you have agreed to our free bet terms and conditions and therefore must meet the turnover requirements before requesting a withdrawal.

    Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further assistance.

    Best regards,


    Scott


    Customer Care Agent
    Bet online on best odds for NFL & sports with Youwin, The Home of Betting. Visit us now for sports betting, poker games, online casino, and slot games. Up to 100 CAD Welcome Bonus.

    Help us youwin.com can be even better! https://www.research.net/s/wecareaboutyou

    Now I am not overly familiar with free bets so I am throwing this over to you wise heads.
    But is this not daylight robbery as it seems to me?

    I reluctantly accept a 'free bet' based on my initial bet of €24
    The free bet loses.
    They tell me I have to turn over €240 of my own cash before I can make any withdrawal.

    I have €33.50 in the account but I also have a potential return of €120 to my account if Germany win the Euros.
    Essentially my money was practically dead as soon as I deposited/finally accepted their 'FREE' bet?

    Am I missing something? This is utter nonsense, right?
    Last edited by Lord Sir Banter; 20-06-12, 02:55.
    X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
    Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!

    $ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $

    #2
    I think the fact that you took them up on their free bet,means you can not withdraw until you have made at least 9 similiar bets,if you didnt use your free bet there would be no problem withdrawing your 33 euro,you can still withdraw 9euro they just charge you for the free bet.I've seen other sites with simiiar offers including Paddy Power

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by imidg View Post
      I think the fact that you took them up on their free bet,means you can not withdraw until you have made at least 9 similiar bets,if you didnt use your free bet there would be no problem withdrawing your 33 euro,you can still withdraw 9euro they just charge you for the free bet.I've seen other sites with simiiar offers including Paddy Power
      And what of the the 120 I have in play also? I will never see that, right?


      So I reluctantly accept a 'free bet' (which they are overly keen to push - probably the reason why they were taking a max €24 on the second favs in the Euro 2012 market) of €24 and I have to go into my other personal funds to the tune of €240 because of it in order to ever be allowed withdraw from their site?

      I'm taking a 10/1 shot to get €24?

      I note this from another site, but they are run by this WINunited group
      A bonus credit accorded by WINunited has to be wagered 5 times (please go to the Special Terms and Conditions of the promotion) on bets before withdrawals can be claimed.
      Does the above not seem, and is it not standard that you have to turn over WINNINGS from the free bet in order to withdraw any WINNINGS gained from the free bet.

      Not: Your free bet lost on the first spin, but you now have now have to place €240 of your own funds before we will process any withdrawals...

      It's a massive hornswaggle, no? Not a free bet. It can't be called a free bet.

      I'll be amazed if Paddy Power or any reputable bookmaker have anything similar to this...
      Last edited by Lord Sir Banter; 20-06-12, 03:40.
      X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
      Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!

      $ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $

      Comment


        #4
        I'ts pretty much a scam ,basically if you put on 10 bets of 24euro you get the last one free,but they allow you to put the last bet or free bet on first after the next 9 bets they credit your acc with 24 euro and i bet theres a timeframe on the placing of the bets,i've seen the exact same thing on paddy power

        Comment


          #5
          [/QUOTE]

          It's a massive hornswaggle, no? Not a free bet. It can't be called a free bet.

          I'll be amazed if Paddy Power or any reputable bookmaker have anything similar to this...[/QUOTE]

          Sadly nearly all bookmakers who offer free bets will have some sort of play through requirements and yes 5 times probably would be the standard amount.

          It would depend on the type off bonus but usually a new account free bet would certainly have some sort of catch(if you know nothing about gambling if would seem a catch but really aint but it clearly written in terms of conditions of the free bet)

          Yes i know quote thing did not work too lazy to change it
          Last edited by corigi; 20-06-12, 04:09. Reason: error

          Comment


            #6
            too long, did not read, nut tell them go fuck themselves and if you want I will deposit and play you in poker and then withdraw all the money and transfer to you on some other side, no joke, I'm nice liek that
            Go big or go homeless.

            Comment


              #7
              You'd have lost the bet anyway so forget the monies.

              Comment


                #8
                genuinely will buy your account off you for €18
                Go big or go homeless.

                Comment


                  #9
                  You don't have €18.
                  ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

                  Comment


                    #10
                    mail me, genuine offer
                    Go big or go homeless.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Completely standard in sports betting and casinos. All signup bonuses have a playthrough requirement. 9-10x is pretty steep but definitely not unheard of. Definitely not a scam. If you signup to any sports book or casino online you should make sure to read the fine print if you accept any bonus, as you wont be able to withdraw until you either void the bonus and winnings from it or playthrough the bonus requirements.
                      Looking for full or part time poker and betting writers. PM if interested.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yeah a lot would be similar. Pretty sure B365 €200 bonus thing you have to play trough your first deposit and three times the bonus before you can withdraw.

                        I'd say they attracted a fair few new customers with that Germany price being out of whack with the rest, wp them. GL with the bet heh.
                        Profit before people.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Bet365 is the lowest requirements I know of at 3x. Most other places are much harder.
                          Looking for full or part time poker and betting writers. PM if interested.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I read through this twice and think you have a point to be honest Rigger

                            Originally posted by The Situation View Post
                            Yeah a lot would be similar. Pretty sure B365 €200 bonus thing you have to play trough your first deposit and three times the bonus before you can withdraw.
                            First deposit bonus is different to free bet. The above is definetly the case for Bet365, but they regularly have free matched bets up to €50 with no play through requirements. There's is outlined below and doesn't come with a play through requirement

                            To qualify for your free In-Play bet, simply place a bet before kick-off, then once the game starts place another bet on any In-Play market. If your FIRST In-Play bet loses we will refund this stake, up to the same value as your largest pre-match bet (max €50).
                            Rigger's whole point is that he didn't have any winnings. He didn't get a deposit bonus, he got a free bet bonus up to a max of €25 based on his first bet. He didn't make any money from this bet, therefore there should be no play through requirement to withdraw his own money.

                            This is their terms from 2 years ago

                            6. In order to withdraw the winnings from free bets, you must first wager an amount of five times the winnings. For example, if you win €20 from a free bet redemption, you must wager a further €100 (20€ x 5) at odds of 2.0 or higher before you can withdraw the €20 winnings. If you request a withdrawal before meeting the wagering requirements, we will notify you that you have not met the requirements. You can chose to proceed and still withdraw the remaining amount in your balance (i.e. your balance minus free bet winnings), however you will forfeit the winnings from the free bet redemption (€20 in the above example).
                            This is from now

                            6. In order to withdraw the winnings from free bets, you must first wager an amount of five times the winnings. For example, if you win €25 from a free bet redemption, you must wager a further €125 (20€ x 5) at odds of 1.8 or higher before you can withdraw the €25 winnings. If you request a withdrawal before meeting the wagering requirements, we will notify you that you have not met the requirements. You can chose to proceed and still withdraw the remaining amount in your balance (i.e. your balance minus free bet winnings), however you will forfeit the winnings from the free bet redemption (€25 in the above example).
                            Both clearly outline that it's only winnings from free bets that can't be withdrawn. Also, why are they asking you to turnover €240 when it's only 5x needed to withdraw?

                            Alternatively we can remove the amount of the Free bet of 24€ received from your Main balance so that you can continue with your withdrawal request
                            So technically they are saying you have €9.50 available for withdrawl from your account. Seems like BS. You defo have a case imo

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by imidg View Post



                              So technically they are saying you have €9.50 available for withdrawl from your account. Seems like BS. You defo have a case imo
                              Thanks for the post.

                              TBH, they haven't said I have 9.50 to withdraw, they just keep repeating their mantra.
                              I figure that if Germany win the Euros, I will be unable to withdraw 133.50. So it was essentially my cash was dead as soon as I agreed to their free bet.

                              I doubt they want to let me withdraw €9.50 (or 133.50 if my Germany bet wins), instead they want me to lose it all by trying to turn over €240 of my own cash because they were good enough to give me a 24e free bet.

                              I find it mental tbh.
                              I'm probably not conveying it well, think you understood it best though, wp.

                              I fail to see how it can be standard, why on earth would anyone want their 'free bet', it's not an offer, it's a trick, simple as.

                              Oddly, my €33.50 is listed on their cashier as 'withdrawable' - yea right.
                              X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
                              Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!

                              $ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by ianmc38 View Post
                                Completely standard in sports betting and casinos. All signup bonuses have a playthrough requirement. 9-10x is pretty steep but definitely not unheard of. Definitely not a scam. If you signup to any sports book or casino online you should make sure to read the fine print if you accept any bonus, as you wont be able to withdraw until you either void the bonus and winnings from it or playthrough the bonus requirements.
                                There are no winnings from the bonus though? Zero.
                                They are suggesting I go into my own pocket to the tune of €240 because I accepted (and lost on the first attempt) at clearing €24 bonus.
                                X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
                                Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!

                                $ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Funny enough something similar happened to me on PP a few weeks ago. Logged on to place a bet & had $14 left over so decided to spin it on Roulette. Unknown to me there was a free $1 bet in Casino games.

                                  Spun it up to $100 and went to transfer to Sportsbook but wouldnt let me. Support said because I had used free bet I had to roll it over 50 times to convert my money back into real money. Load of balls I said.

                                  Stuck $5 on red & black to clear it 10 times praying for no zero. Still couldnt transfer/withdraw.

                                  Contacted support & they then told me that casino games only count towards 5% of the rollover ( so I'd have to gamble $1k to clear it )

                                  Went on mega Roulette tilt & abandoned the red/black game. Varied from $50 to $750 before I finally was able to withdraw $450.

                                  Absolute joke.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                    Funny enough something similar happened to me on PP a few weeks ago. Logged on to place a bet & had $14 left over so decided to spin it on Roulette. Unknown to me there was a free $1 bet in Casino games.

                                    Spun it up to $100 and went to transfer to Sportsbook but wouldnt let me. Support said because I had used free bet I had to roll it over 50 times to convert my money back into real money. Load of balls I said.

                                    Stuck $5 on red & black to clear it 10 times praying for no zero. Still couldnt transfer/withdraw.

                                    Contacted support & they then told me that casino games only count towards 5% of the rollover ( so I'd have to gamble $1k to clear it )

                                    Went on mega Roulette tilt & abandoned the red/black game. Varied from $50 to $750 before I finally was able to withdraw $450.

                                    Absolute joke.
                                    They were clearly only trying to help you.
                                    I mean they turned your $1 into $450. That was nice of them

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      .

                                      Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post

                                      Quote:
                                      6. In order to withdraw the winnings from free bets, you must first wager an amount of five times the winnings. For example, if you win €25 from a free bet redemption, you must wager a further €125 (20€ x 5) at odds of 1.8 or higher before you can withdraw the €25 winnings. If you request a withdrawal before meeting the wagering requirements, we will notify you that you have not met the requirements. You can chose to proceed and still withdraw the remaining amount in your balance (i.e. your balance minus free bet winnings), however you will forfeit the winnings from the free bet redemption (€25 in the above example).


                                      Both clearly outline that it's only winnings from free bets that can't be withdrawn. Also, why are they asking you to turnover €240 when it's only 5x needed to withdraw?

                                      this is explaining the 240 in their email:
                                      Quote:
                                      Dear ,

                                      Kindly note that your withdrawal request has been cancelled because
                                      you still need to fulfil the Welcome Bonus requirements.

                                      The qualifying bet plus the free bet received must be turned over 5
                                      times at odds of 1.8 or higher before requesting a withdrawal as
                                      stated in the Terms and Conditions of this promotion:

                                      http://www.youwin.com/en/promotions/...01-26-bonus-en


                                      Its confusing, in the terms they linked you, its like there saying if you except the offer, then you must wager 10X through and then: "For example, if you win €25 from a free bet redemption, you must wager a further €125 (20€ x 5) at odds of 1.8 or higher before you can withdraw the €25 winnings" ALSO if your free bet wins you also must wager the winnings profit of that 5X times through?
                                      That cant be right!
                                      Last edited by badugi; 21-06-12, 00:45.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Budugi has the right clause

                                        Before you can request a payout or transfer your money into another account, you must turn over the stake of YOUR FIRST QUALIFYING BET & the FREE BET amount, five times on odds of 1.8 (4/5) or higher. If this is not completed, the amount of the free bet and winnings from the free bet will be removed from the account.
                                        Which is exactly what the were saying to Rig. $24+24 * 10
                                        How much have you turned over so far? About $50. Only $190 to go. I suggest we spin it up. Only need to place the loots on 3 even money shots to unlock.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          I've had a few beers but it seems to me that there should be two balances.

                                          1. Moneys deposited and any monies won with real money.

                                          2. Free bet balance and any monies accrued after accepting the free bet.

                                          You should be able to withdraw any money you deposited. The free bet balance should be separate and should be zero after you lose a bet.
                                          'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                            Funny enough something similar happened to me on PP a few weeks ago. Logged on to place a bet & had $14 left over so decided to spin it on Roulette. Unknown to me there was a free $1 bet in Casino games.

                                            Spun it up to $100 and went to transfer to Sportsbook but wouldnt let me. Support said because I had used free bet I had to roll it over 50 times to convert my money back into real money. Load of balls I said.

                                            Stuck $5 on red & black to clear it 10 times praying for no zero. Still couldnt transfer/withdraw.

                                            Contacted support & they then told me that casino games only count towards 5% of the rollover ( so I'd have to gamble $1k to clear it )

                                            Went on mega Roulette tilt & abandoned the red/black game. Varied from $50 to $750 before I finally was able to withdraw $450.

                                            Absolute joke.
                                            I might be wrong but I dont think you need to tranfer to/ from sportsbook for roulette?

                                            Well with the live casino anyway, any time I have played it I just booted yp the live casino and there was my balance waving good bye

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by eagle eye View Post
                                              I've had a few beers but it seems to me that there should be two balances.

                                              1. Moneys deposited and any monies won with real money.

                                              2. Free bet balance and any monies accrued after accepting the free bet.

                                              You should be able to withdraw any money you deposited. The free bet balance should be separate and should be zero after you lose a bet.
                                              That would completely defeat the purpose of roll over clauses from their POV. People would stick around to clear winnings but withdraw it they lose. It would be risk free for the punter which means it's a bad deal for the bookie. Not happening when they make the rules.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by badugi View Post
                                                Kindly note that your withdrawal request has been cancelled because
                                                you still need to fulfil the Welcome Bonus requirements.
                                                In that case they are being extremely sketchy because saying it's a welcome bonus as opposed to a free bet leaves it open to interpretation. I can understand them wanting people to place through a welcome bonus but i'm pretty sure that was never relayed to Rigger so i can see his POV. I still think he has a case though.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Anyone have a poker account on merge?
                                                  X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
                                                  Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!

                                                  $ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    If you feel you've been cheated post it on the SBR forum. They deal with dodgy books and outing of shady practices on a daily basis ad are the main industry watchdog for it although in recent times the advertising dollars has swayed their opinions on some shadier operations.
                                                    Looking for full or part time poker and betting writers. PM if interested.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Yea, they are mental imo. I haven't written back to them. Despite their weird claims, my funds are still in a section called 'withdrawable' on their website. Obviously they manually process withdrawals though and just keep stopping it and stonewalling me with their nonsense.

                                                      However, they have a poker skin which when I created an account, had my balance when I logged in and allowed me to sit at a table.

                                                      So going to find someone with a merge account who is willing to try to beat me at poker for $38 or however much.
                                                      X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
                                                      Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!

                                                      $ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Just seeing this now.

                                                        I work for a Maltese company who are entering the Irish market next month. I can understand many companies have very high wagering requirements but if this happened to me I'd certainly feel scammed.
                                                        When calculating a bonus turnover you gotta be clear in your T's and C's as to what's required. Small print is NOT enough and only serves as ass covering on their part.

                                                        As it is we've had to revise out whole bonus system for the Irish market as any discerning customer would run me out of town with our previous offerings. I've also worked for a company here who's bonus scheme meant that less scrupulous punters were able to print $$$. You should push for your initial deposit to be returned IMO.

                                                        Comment

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