Sattelite hand

[tipp86]

Ok this is an awkward hand from a sattelite, this hand is during the rebuy period well a few minutes left.

182 left im 14th

There will be roughly 60 seats.

Im in late MP 2 limpers into me blinds are 50-100

Limper 1 9k

Limper 2 3k

Me 7k

I raise to 300 with AJ and the 2 limpers call.

Flop

Ah Kd 10h

Limper 1 bets 1050 into 1050 pot, limper 2 folds, I ?

Pretty easy fold considering sattelite dynamics i assume?

What do we do in a normal tournament?

No great reads on player.

[TommyGunne]

I'd call flop anyways and see what happens.

[Closed_Account]

I'd call flop anyways and see what happens.

Me too. I wouldnt be passing to quick when limper full pot leads straight off the bat.

[Caf]

IMO you preflop raise is too small and weak. with 2 limpers we should be making it 5bb. if there is one limper then 4bb. betting 3bb with limpers achieves very little.

I fold flop because your hand is marginal to such a strong lead. he's betting two pair, a set(unlikely) or the nuts with this bet and wants you to push over the top. It's a satelite so calling the flop would be a bad play IMO. You dont need to commit chips as your stack is a nice size anyway and you should make to ticket/money.

If it was not a satelite I would prob fold flop anyway.

[tipp86]

IMO you preflop raise is too small and weak. with 2 limpers we should be making it 5bb. if there is one limper then 4bb. betting 3bb with limpers achieves very little.
.

I think this thinking is a little flawed maybe someone could back me up or tell me im flawed. This is a bigger raise than normal for me. I am opening to 240 with no limpers so essentially i am adding to my normal raise.

I think what you are saying is ok maybe in the first level or two of a tournament but after that i think its bad.

Raising smaller allows you to get off flops easier and with more chips. It is essentially pot control and allows you to outplay poor players on the flop.

[TommyGunne]

Oh and 300 is too small here. I'd be making it about 430.

[Caf]

I think this thinking is a little flawed maybe someone could back me up or tell me im flawed. This is a bigger raise than normal for me. I am opening to 240 with no limpers so essentially i am adding to my normal raise.

I think what you are saying is ok maybe in the first level or two of a tournament but after that i think its bad.

Raising smaller allows you to get off flops easier and with more chips. It is essentially pot control and allows you to outplay poor players on the flop.

I make it 3bb with no limpers as i said earlier. 1 limper=4bb. 2 limpers=5bb, etc.

As the tourney progresses and antes are introduced, I make it 2.5bb with no limpers, 1 limper 3.5bb, 2 limpers 4.5bb, etc.

These small raises that you talk about and with limpers in front of you and the reasoning behind it is a flaw IMO.

[tipp86]

Oh and 300 is too small here. I'd be making it about 430.

In doing that i would be raising nearly twice as much as normal. I can see doing this for numerous limpers. I couldnt see myself raising more than 350 with 2 limpers ever.

I would probably agree maybe thats what i should have made it allright.

Edit to say in live tournament or low buy in online my thinking may change as players wont notice betting patterns or be able to take much from them.

[tipp86]

I make it 3bb with no limpers as i said earlier. 1 limper=4bb. 2 limpers=5bb, etc.

As the tourney progresses and antes are introduced, I make it 2.5bb with no limpers, 1 limper 3.5bb, 2 limpers 4.5bb, etc.

These small raises that you talk about and with limpers in front of you and the reasoning behind it is a flaw IMO.

9 handed

2 limpers

UTG and Early MP Limp for 1000 folded to you on the button with AJ. Your stack is 18k are you really raising to 4500?

I just think your theory is a little generalised. Please dont think im picking on you either just interested in different lines.

[Caf]

9 handed

2 limpers

UTG and Early MP Limp for 1000 folded to you on the button with AJ. Your stack is 18k are you really raising to 4500?

I just think your theory is a little generalised. Please dont think im picking on you either just interested in different lines.

Stop picking on me(I'm dying!)

This is just what I do. I have never seen much of a prob with it.

BB 1k. stack 18k. 2 limpers. you have 18bb here. Depending on average stack and your read of limpers, we have 2 options IMO= ALL IN or FOLD. I dont like limping here. Sometimes will fold if I think limping villains can limp stronger than AJ. If i dont think this then I'm pushing tbh.

[tipp86]

Stop picking on me(I'm dying!)

This is just what I do. I have never seen much of a prob with it.

BB 1k. stack 18k. 2 limpers. you have 18bb here. Depending on average stack and your read of limpers, we have 2 options IMO= ALL IN or FOLD. I dont like limping here. Sometimes will fold if I think limping villains can limp stronger than AJ. If i dont think this then I'm pushing tbh.

See thats what i mean your comment been a bit generalised. In that spot pushing is horrible, limping would actually be better i think not that i really ever limp.

I dont think theres much wrong with a 3200-3600 raise and play the hand from there.

If im completely out of line here someone stop me. We have gone very off topic.

[tiago]

Tipp in the aj example hand there you mentioned with 2 limpers I think you should shove 18 bb's, so much dead money in there.

I agree with Flishie about adding a blind on for each limper, if you are not doing this none of the players who limped in the first place are going to fold and obviously most of the time your raising with the hope of taking it down there and picking up the dead money.

[tipp86]

Guess tiago reads come into it some bit. But its rare im shoving 18bbs to take down that. Just my take on the issue.

I think a lot of tournament players fear flops at this stage of the tournament 15-25bbs

[BobSloane]

I dont like the tiny raise with AJ with 18bbs. You are codding yourself if you think there is more than 1 street post flop. If you get just one caller(which you will at least) and cbet flop you will be committed to calling a shove on most boards getting bout 3-1. If you get chk/called there is only 1/2 pot size bet on the turn. If they both call pre its a 10k pot and you have 14.5 or whatever but your equity is obviously generally less as there are 3 of ye. And your fold equity is less as its more likely one of them flopped something. I'd rather shove pre or make a bigger raise so that I could shove flop without it being a retardo size - or fold pre. My 2c but im not featuring well on opr or anything

[Caf]

just another something to add...

By raising so weak you are opening yourself to more 3bets shoves on you. If someone limp/pushes, how do you feel about your AJ?

[Caf]

Just for you tipp!

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 6.5 Tournament, 60/120 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

SB (t1895)
BB (t10245)
UTG (t2640)
UTG+1 (t4185)
MP1 (t4450)
MP2 (t4580)
Hero (MP3) (t2515)
CO (t3700)
Button (t2080)

Hero's M: 13.97

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, J
3 folds, MP2 calls t120, Hero bets t420, 4 folds, MP2 calls t300

Flop: (t1020) 6, 6, 5 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets t500, 1 fold

Total pot: t1020

Results:
Hero didn't show A, J.
Outcome: Hero won t1020

[TommyGunne]

In the 18bb example I'd just shove my AJ. We have 30-70 big blinds effective though. We should be making it more than 3x with 2 limpers.

[Laois Hammer]

3x'n with 2 limpers is wrong on many levels i dont get what it achieves
Flishie has summed up everything i would do.

And in the 18bb example i shove and take the free chips.