50nl: kj oop in 3bet pot

[shano_88]

Villian is 22/17, att to steal of 44 and a fold to 3bet of 71 over 500ish hands. sb is unknown.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($54.10)
SB ($46.85)
Hero (BB) ($55.65)
UTG ($49.25)
MP ($48.75)
CO ($50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, K
3 folds, Button bets $1.50, SB calls $1.25, Hero raises to $6.50, Button calls $5, 1 fold

Flop: ($14.50) K, 4, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $7.50, Button calls $7.50

Turn: ($29.50) 10 (2 players)
Hero ?


What kinda line do you take on the turn here?

[TommyGunne]

I'd just flat pre. Your flop bet size is pretty bad with these stacks on this board when you've 3b pretty big. I think the pots too big and the boards too wet to go for 3 streets. I'd just bet biggish on the flop and shove turn.

[pok3rplaya]

I essentially disagree with every part of the post above. Hand is beautiful so far (3bet is maybe 1bb too big), now c/f.

[Moneymaker]

Yeah I don't think im too happy about jamming the turn either. I wouldn't 3bet pre either fwiw.

Horrendous bet sizing though.

[TommyGunne]

I essentially disagree with every part of the post above. Hand is beautiful so far (3bet is maybe 1bb too big), now c/f.

Why do you like 3betting KJ here? I think its much better to flat.

I can see why you'd like the 3 streets approach, that decision is much closer imo, but still a 2 street.

[tipp86]

I will sometimes 3 bet and sometimes flat here. If i 3 bet im making it about 4.20.

I actually check the flop here a lot. Not sure if thats a really bad line or not.

[pok3rplaya]

I basically 3 st. 100% of my range when I 3bet. I'll post more later, in a session right now.

[tipp86]

I basically 3 st. 100% of my range when I 3bet. I'll post more later, in a session right now.

I would just be thinking that we are going to create a v big pot with a average hand. By checking here we can gain more value from pocket pairs on later streets.

Im not saying i wont cbet this a lot of the time but tend to vary it from time to time.

Would his 4 bet range come in to consideration here?

[RBBlogger]

i recently put a small roll on FTP to try and build it up and clear the bonus and i am playing this level so may be best to answer this.

the 3bet is fine there as long as your not overdoing it from the blinds against this particular player. What is his fold to cbet in 3bet pots and also in normal pots? If it is 70% or lower I am double barrellin this spot 100% of the time and folding to raise on turn and c/f the river if he calls the turn.

I have gone through all my 3bet pots over the weekend and i have come across this situation way too often for my liking. anytime i get raised on the turn it is by a slowplayed AA, flopped set, turned set, flopped two pair. If the villian has called the 3bet with KT-KQ,he will probably call 2sts and is hoping for you to check river so he can get a showdown. The weakest he will shove if checked to is AK.

[Line Us]

I think the squeeze is fine here pre, if the small blind didnt call then I'd usually flat. Flop is pretty dry so betsize seems fine. Turn is tough. Think i'd bet again mostly. Dont really like a check fold.

[Moneymaker]

I basically 3 st. 100% of my range when I 3bet.

That seems far too broad a statement to be true. And if it is, it's probably really exploitable.

[pok3rplaya]

First I think this is a spot where we do need to worry about being exploitable. We're talking about bet sizing in a 3bet pot against a seemingly competent reg who we play with a lot. We can't just bet small with our air and big with our nuts.

This I think we need to realise that when we bet a flop like this after 3betting OOP, we have a more air in our range than TP type hands. We want to bet in such a way that is most +EV for the largest part of our range.

I believe that the best way to do this is to bet small on the flop (1/3 - 1/2) pot so that he floats and calls a wide range on the flop and then increase our double barreling frequency to take him off all these hands on the turn or river. So in the hand above, the dude will call all his 8x and TT and 56 and then fold to either a second small bet on the turn or a ~ 3/4 PSB river shove.

This plan has the added benefit of allowing us to get all the money in with our big hands no problem such as when we have AJss here or KK. It also increases villain spazzability on the flop. All the big flop bet, shove turn line does is reduce your maneuverability in these pots so badly that you end up just trading coolers back and forth with the rest of the regs.

So essentially I feel that a 1/3, 1/3, shove installment plan allows us to extract the most EV possible from our bluffing range without sacrificing from our value range AND maintaining balance throughout. If I want to exploit a certain player I can shift up and down the spectrum of value:bluff hands I bet on each street rather than vary the bet size (which is a more exploitable action).

wrt pf, whether 3betting or calling is more +EV can go either way. I can't say without information on the SB's tendencies. Suffice to say I don't think KJo plays badly in a 3bet pot OOP so I have no problem with the 3bet.

@ Moneymaker: I meant 100% of my cbetting range after 3betting
@tipp86: don;t do that against anyone half decent. You're unbalancing your cbetting range soooo badly and just asking to get owned. You cbet 100% of your air there but check KJ? Also once you c/c the flop I know you have SD value so you only ever get one street out of people.

[Bubbleking]

IMHO you are giving up too much equity by c/f that turn. I would have done as TommyGunne said earlier and bet flop bigger and jamming turn.

oh and id flat pf too

[pok3rplaya]

If we bet he hardly ever calls with worse and if we check he hardly ever bets worse, hence, c/f.

[shano_88]

Thanks for all the replies, really appreciate it. Il try and write something tomorow. Wrecked now!

[RedJoker]

LOL, KJo is the hand I use in almost all my examples of bad 3betting ranges. The only way preflop could have been worse is if you'd 3bet a small PP.