Waterford Masters sat hand

[theshortstack]

Ok so this has been wrecking my head since it happened.
I get moved table to the villans table only hand I seen him in he raises utg 7 handed, the bb 3bets and he flats with A2s and hits his flush and get paid after that hand table breaks
and we get moved to the same table with him two to my left.
I get to the table with about 12k and chip up to 19kish without going to showdown.

17 players left with 10 seats and money for 11th

I'm on the button with JQo playing around 19k, blinds are 1k-2k
It gets folded around to me, I make it 4.2k and bb flats
flop: 937 rainbow, he checks I bet 5.3k, he thinks for a bit and raises putting me all in
Few question and mistakes.
I should have shoved pre flop.
But after the flop do you open jam to his check which i'm thinking I should have done or check for the free card.
But my main question is after he puts me all-in the pot is about 30k with me having 8k behind and then look at the clock and see it going to be 1,5k-3k by the time it gets back to me another reason to shove pre.
If I think villian has A9,K9,A7 kinda of hands or even 89,78 anything really thats not blocking one of my cards can and should I call here?

[Guest]

id shove esp if theres antes too peopel will say your raise is fine but a donkey see only 2.2k more sure deres value there and hits a pair and ck raise u then
shove only getting called by monsters

[theshortstack]

no antes thats the main thing that stoped me shoving pre.

[mcnugget]

The main reason you should have shoved pre is to avoid putting yourself in horrible positions like this.

I would either shove flop or check behind (and plan on folding on any non TJQ turns), neither is great. Prob leaning toward the check. I definitely wouldn't bet a third of my stack unsure what to do if its repopped.

As for his raise I think i'd probably fold in a sat, you are getting around the proper odds for a call but I'd prefer to take my chances shoving a 5bb stack than calling it off as a likely 2/1 dog at best.

[Daragh999]

V easy shove pre, antes or not. In a live sat, short with a 7 people to go till the tickets i would shove the BTN here massively wide as people are never gonna call you enough. A bad player (most of them) with a mid-sized stack in a live sat will prob fold AJ/77 and under (possibly more) meaning there only calling the top 5% of there range, raid there blinds and rebuild your stack.

[theshortstack]

I know all day very day I should shove pre, It was mt first live game in nearly 6 months and made two mistakes the whole game:1 not shoving pre and 2 I think not shoveing the flop, but what I'm asking is would you call all in after he commits you?

[8611]

You have to call now. Your read is you prob have two live cards. But tbh I think if he shows you 99 given your stack size you still have to call. You will have to double up twice to do as well as you'll do if you win this pot. Given you've 4 BBs you're unlikely to get two good spots in the short time you have left so will be incredibly lucky to get it in better.

If you've less than 12-13 BBs in a tournie this badly structured you should just ship pre. prob up to about 15BBs tbh.

[thechamp87]

Shove pre, anything else is awful.
As played I'd 100% fold now.

[thechamp87]

You have to call now.

obviously he's played it incredibly badly to this point but calling it off here in a satellite is unnecessary. If he gets a shove through in the next couple of hands he's almost back to 15k. I'd much rather that than calling it off where we could be dead.

Again though, anything other than shoving pre is terrible.

[Daragh999]

Fold now AINEC. You have 5bb's left, more than enough to shove the next time it folds to you with any 2 and get folds from bad hands.

[thechamp87]

Fold now AINEC. You have 5bb's left, more than enough to shove the next time it folds to you with any 2 and get folds from bad hands.

Meh doesn't even have to be the next hand. People love folding in satellites, especially when they can see the finish line. I'd shove one of the next 3 hands.

[Teddie]

Why would you ever overshove the flo? He's never folding a 9 or 7. Not sure what a shove does that cbet doesn't? When you have 8k left he can be checking raising a draw hoping to get fold equity.

[peterswellman]

I know all day very day I should shove pre, It was mt first live game in nearly 6 months and made two mistakes the whole game:1 not shoving pre and 2 I think not shoveing the flop, but what I'm asking is would you call all in after he commits you?

Board: 9d 7h 3s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.397% 24.40% 00.00% 173904 0.00 { QJo }
Hand 1: 75.603% 75.60% 00.00% 538896 0.00 { A9s, A7s, K9s, 98s, 87s, A9o, A7o, K9o, 98o, 87o }


---
That's the numbers and on the ranges you've given him. Obviously it's probably wider than that imo but just worked off the specific hands you stated. To make this call you would generally need higher equity for it to be ok and against these hands you're not getting it. Given when he shoves it's 19k in there and you've 9,500 you just aren't getting the price to put it in now.

You know yourself, opening for a 10bb stack is pretty bad. Just shove pre and you'll be fine.

[theshortstack]

Thanks guys for your replys, and yes anything but a shove pre was bad and knew myself straight away it was bad but then it got worse by cbetting and left myself in a shitty spot.
Anyway I folded and got it in with A3s behind the chipleaders co open, I had no fold equity but knew he'd be opening wide so thought it would be a good spot to get my double up, which did'nt happen. KJ I think he had.
Cliffs: shove pre, play more live games,know how many chips I have a the start of a hand lol
Thanks guys

[Delooners]

Ok so this has been wrecking my head since it happened.
I get moved table to the villans table only hand I seen him in he raises utg 7 handed, the bb 3bets and he flats with A2s and hits his flush and get paid after that hand table breaks
and we get moved to the same table with him two to my left.
I get to the table with about 12k and chip up to 19kish without going to showdown.

17 players left with 10 seats and money for 11th

I'm on the button with JQo playing around 19k, blinds are 1k-2k
It gets folded around to me, I make it 4.2k and bb flats
flop: 937 rainbow, he checks I bet 5.3k, he thinks for a bit and raises putting me all in
Few question and mistakes.
I should have shoved pre flop.
But after the flop do you open jam to his check which i'm thinking I should have done or check for the free card.
But my main question is after he puts me all-in the pot is about 30k with me having 8k behind and then look at the clock and see it going to be 1,5k-3k by the time it gets back to me another reason to shove pre.
If I think villian has A9,K9,A7 kinda of hands or even 89,78 anything really thats not blocking one of my cards can and should I call here?

I was sitting across from you when this hand was played out, I was keeping an eye on stack sizes etc and had noticed you were 10 bigs or less at the start of the hand....when I saw you open raise instead of open shoving I thought you must have monsters and were desperate to get action with them......I couldnt believe it when you folded post flop

but fwiw I think you were right to fold after playing it the way you did....I mean we were pretty much at the business end of things and people were folding hands they shouldn't really be folding, so 5 bigs was plenty big to get folds from the blinds....esp as I think the average stack at the time was only around 15 bigs anyway so nobody was going to gamble 5 bigs without decent holdings....

apart from that one hand, I thought you played very well though....gg

[theshortstack]

I was sitting across from you when this hand was played out, I was keeping an eye on stack sizes etc and had noticed you were 10 bigs or less at the start of the hand....when I saw you open raise instead of open shoving I thought you must have monsters and were desperate to get action with them......I couldnt believe it when you folded post flop

but fwiw I think you were right to fold after playing it the way you did....I mean we were pretty much at the business end of things and people were folding hands they shouldn't really be folding, so 5 bigs was plenty big to get folds from the blinds....esp as I think the average stack at the time was only around 15 bigs anyway so nobody was going to gamble 5 bigs without decent holdings....

apart from that one hand, I thought you played very well though....gg

Thanks,
Fwiw worth I think the reason at the time for me raiseing and not shoving pre was the fact that the average stacke like you said was around 15bb and I was after geting a few steals through with around a 10bb stack previous to this hand I had a mind set that I could raise fold this stack with the way the table was playing but then when I put out the 5k on the flop that sucked balls lol.

[Caf]

Cbetting here is bad too fwiw.

[theshortstack]

Cbetting here is bad too fwiw.

Ya I kinda knew that, esp against the villan as he had a big stack and his range could hit the flop a high % of the time.
So my play should be to check back the flop yes? and give the pot up if I dont turn or river a pair?
It was just spazzy play by me I know that and had no problem posting here that I played it awful.
I just wanted to know was I getting priced in to call his raise putting me all-in against his range of hands (that are not blockers) and when I posted above A9,A7,78,89, I mean there is no way i'm tying him down to 4 hands thats just a small examle he could have the striaght draw or air and knows he can get me to fold.

[Caf]

Ya I kinda knew that, esp against the villan as he had a big stack and his range could hit the flop a high % of the time.
So my play should be to check back the flop yes? and give the pot up if I dont turn or river a pair?
It was just spazzy play by me I know that and had no problem posting here that I played it awful.
I just wanted to know was I getting priced in to call his raise putting me all-in against his range of hands (that are not blockers) and when I posted above A9,A7,78,89, I mean there is no way i'm tying him down to 4 hands thats just a small examle he could have the striaght draw or air and knows he can get me to fold.

Yeah, checking back and folding if missing the turn is the best line post flop with a shallow stack in general.

Fwiw I think you are concentrating on the wrong thing, being priced in to call here is fairly irrelevant because you won't come across a spot like this again, shoveaments.

Also, I'd shove almost atc pf here if there were antes. I don't think we need to shove too wide here without them, just hands with decent equity.

[Winning!]

Just shove pre it makes your life so much easier, and you never get yourself into these shitty situations.

Yeah, checking back and folding if missing the turn is the best line post flop with a shallow stack in general.

I agree with this, but there are a lot of cards I will reconsider my options with on the turn. For example if villain checks I would barrel any A,K,Q,J,T,8 and shove over a lead from villain into most of these cards too. As long as his bet is reasonably small <5k we will have FE, as our line looks so strong given the fishy flop check with only 10BB's behind, that we may get him to fold better hands.

edit: may be wrong about fold equity having seen how short we actually are :/