Hand from Fitzwilliam Scalps Game last Night

[smurph]

Being to try and run this through my head again, so some thoughts would be good

final Table of the Fitz Scalps game. The strangest final table I have been at in a long while. We are down from 9 players to 3 in 30 minutes of play

Example of some of the play is blinds are 1.5 K 3K, and player to my right makes it 11K I reraise with Ad Q D to 25K, he smooth calls.

Flop comes down Qs 4c 5s he checks I check, Turn 9h he best 26K and I go all in for 37 K and he folds ,


Anyway to the hand in question

I am on button with playing 150K (blinds are 2K 4K with a 400 ante)
Player in the small blind is none other than Eddie the Eagle, playing about 170K and player in BB is called Brian (fitz regular, quite a competent play, if in a little bit of shock at Eddie the eagles play, ie. Calling raises with 7s 10s - 3c 4c those type of hands), playing about 100K

I raise to 12K on the Button with Ks Js, eddie the eagle smooth calls, BB folds

(pot 29,200 approx)

flop comes down 4s 8d jd - Eddie checks I bet 25K he smooth calls, (pot 79,200)

turn comes out 2c - Eddie bets out 25K (pot now 104,200) action back to you

whats you play (I have about 115K behind)

[thechamp87]

Raise less pre and bet less on the flop.
He's a front runner for the worst player I've ever seen playing the game.
As played I'd call now and snap pretty much any river. If he checks river then value bet/value shove.

[Guest]

id shove i think he calls off with any pair to be honest definitely and any pair draw combo
also i think as champ87 said flatting against villain is fine as he shoves many rivers seeing your flat on turn if you did as weak

[thechamp87]

id shove i think he calls off with any pair to be honest definitely and any pair draw combo
also i think as champ87 said flatting against villain is fine as he shoves many rivers seeing your flat on turn if you did as weak

Shoving just gives him a chance to fold whatever bag he's bet 25k with on the turn. I think calling and calling any river is much better than shoving the turn.

[Guest]

Shoving just gives him a chance to fold whatever bag he's bet 25k with on the turn. I think calling and calling any river is much better than shoving the turn.

ya but also gives him a chance to hit his draws with like 9 10
diamonds
53 even
ace rag
but if your sure hes going to shove river then its okay
i think both options shoving and calling any shove on river no matter what are both fine

[Closed_Account]

I wrote a response close to the same as Champs except adding I would actually bet that much on the flop, and maybe even pre V Ed. Id certainly just call the turn and would be folding close to zero rivers unless he gave his hand away.I wouldnt totally discount a nuttish hand but our hand is jut way too strong to fold versus this punter.

[Ziggin&Zaggin]

I like this spot and as an amature if we smooth turn bet and river brings diamonds or straight finishes what do we do then.
Do we fold to his river shove.? If we are confident we have the best hand here would we not be best to get it allin now and try and push him off his draws?
Or maybe his 25k is a stop and go bet?

[Guest]

I like this spot and as an amature if we smooth turn bet and river brings diamonds or straight finishes what do we do then.
Do we fold to his river shove.? If we are confident we have the best hand here would we not be best to get it allin now and try and push him off his draws?
Or maybe his 25k is a stop and go bet?

If we flat were calling any river bet or shove regardless of what kinda scare card comes

[Daragh999]

I shove as you have bloated the pot we only have slightly more than 1 pot sized bet left, we have his range crushed (yes he is that bad) and i want to get max value as i see him calling off with alot of the hands he is betting for value and semi bluffing with here. Calling is also fine though to let him bluff.

Raise pre and c-bet are WAY-WAY TO BIG though!!! 10K pre and 12K on the flop more than enough, why are you trying to blast him away?

[Starvin Marvin]

Cbet is perfect if he will call it with worse which he will because hes a donk.

Potting all your strong hands vs fish is a good idea in games like these.

[billstraightener]

I've a feeling you lose this hand for some reason

Jam the turn, imo


That weak blocker bet he puts out on the turn, is probly with Any 10 in his hand, and with diamonds, and thinks by betting it scares you to shove.

[DaKlowen]

I raise to 12K on the Button with Ks Js, eddie the eagle smooth calls, BB folds

(pot 29,200 approx)

flop comes down 4s 8d jd - Eddie checks I bet 25K he smooth calls, (pot 79,200)

turn comes out 2c - Eddie bets out 25K (pot now 104,200) action back to you

whats you play (I have about 115K behind)

PF i raise to 9 and lead for 12 ...
As played fold,... you are being value towned, Eddie will check raise big draws and combos on the flop, this looks like a flopped/turned set, imo.

[smurph]

Thanks for the replies,
I bet large on the flop because my plann was to shove any card that did not get the draws... Eddies bet on the turn I thought was strange, because the 2 on the turn (in my opinion was a good card), no obvious draws made.

Again my preflop raising and cbet was too big, I got caught into the "Try to get Eddie of a hand bet" but I have now learn't that doesn't work. I didn't feel that eddie flopped a set because he would have raised my flop bet to protect against the draws ?

Anyway I paused for about a minute and shoved, and he snapped me off with 2 4 for turned two pair, and im gone in 3rd sigh....

thanks for the replies

[thechamp87]

Lol, he actually genuinely is one of the worst I've ever come across. I remember once in the SE in a 2/5 cash game he was explaining to me the various reasons why K5 was better than AK or something similar.

[Fiery Wasabi]

ANY king is the nuts to this player btw, if there is one on the flop, and he's betting,.... you better have something better !!

Also, as I said to Smurph, 3-handed Eddie is always seeing a flop, as folding is not an option for him. If he then hits some of it he is prepared to go to war.

It was just bad luck that he connected so well on the turn.

[billstraightener]

For some reason (from the tone of the thread) I thought villian was gonna outplay us here with a slow played AJ, or better hand preflop, but no he got redic lucky, from what has been said on villian, top pair K kicker is ze nuts,

[connie147]

Raise less pre and bet less on the flop.
He's a front runner for the worst player I've ever seen playing the game.
As played I'd call now and snap pretty much any river. If he checks river then value bet/value shove.

As a general rule of thumb, I agree with the bet-sizing being smaller. But this raises an interesting subject of when we are playing on tables with less than competent players. Is there not an arguement here to raise your bet-sizing, or do you say that it is still correct to keep the raises to 2.2--2.5x
I was playing in the side event at the waterford masters this weekend, and there were a lot of players who wouldnt be great players. Everytime their bb was raised a little more than 2x, they would make the comment "sure you know im not folding for that kinda raise". Yes, I understand that the good player has position on them for the rest of the hand,but as they are calling the raises with atc, its hard to put them on a range when they start calling the c-bets.
PS: I did keep my bet sizing the same, but it did have me thinking as the tourament was going on, so seeing this thread, Id thought Id stick up the point for discussion.

[Alfie]

As a general rule of thumb, I agree with the bet-sizing being smaller. But this raises an interesting subject of when we are playing on tables with less than competent players. Is there not an arguement here to raise your bet-sizing, or do you say that it is still correct to keep the raises to 2.2--2.5x
I was playing in the side event at the waterford masters this weekend, and there were a lot of players who wouldnt be great players. Everytime their bb was raised a little more than 2x, they would make the comment "sure you know im not folding for that kinda raise". Yes, I understand that the good player has position on them for the rest of the hand,but as they are calling the raises with atc, its hard to put them on a range when they start calling the c-bets.
PS: I did keep my bet sizing the same, but it did have me thinking as the tourament was going on, so seeing this thread, Id thought Id stick up the point for discussion.

I think this is a good general way of thinking about the game, but when playing against bad players in a tourney, keeping your opening size small is going to give you a more advantageous stack to pot ratio post-flop, which probably outweighs the upside of increasing your sizing in order to get them to put more chips in the pot. The OP is a good example of this, where hero has 37.5bb and a lot of manouverability to outplay the fish.

[Keane]

pot:stack is more important than getting the fish to put more money in preflop is the generally accepted wisdom afaik.

Makes sense imo.

[Hectorjelly]

As long as you don't leak information and you don't raise too big (ie over 3bbs) I really doubt your opening raise size is going to make much difference for your results. There are pro's & cons of opening small and big.

[Moneymaker]

I'd definitely be raising 2.2-2.5x at the most, especially in positon vs guys like Eddie. I want him playing OOP with his garbage hands as much as possible.

As played, call and call any river/value shove if checked to. I don't mind a shove on the turn as you definitely get called by worse from that genius. Ul turn.

[ionapaul]

Lol, he actually genuinely is one of the worst I've ever come across. I remember once in the SE in a 2/5 cash game he was explaining to me the various reasons why K5 was better than AK or something similar.

Eddie used to make everyone LOL back in the day (three / four years ago) with one of his hilarious calculations...everyone on the scene knew it, but it just isn't coming to me right now...it was something along the lines of what your chances of being outflopped was if you held AA versus one other player's random hole cards, his calculation being a multiple of the actual %. Eddie's a definite Dublin poker legend, much in the same vein as the Chief.

[Maddogg]

eddie the seagul

remember playing against him and wondering what he was at (about 4- years ago)
then saw him play a hand in galway on TV in Galway about 3 years ago with K rag i think, it was horrific.............

Nice guy all the same

[westlife]

Raise less pre and bet less on the flop.
He's a front runner for the worst player I've ever seen playing the game. As played I'd call now and snap pretty much any river. If he checks river then value bet/value shove.

he is 3 lengths clear!! he is my "how you can stay soooooo bad for many years" example. lost a ticket for the ME in an IO supersat 2 years ago when having a monster stack (91 left, 64 tickets), deciding to take on the chip leader UTG to 3 bet reraise with QJ off. dumped off the entire stack! Chiefesque for sure........ but there is only 1 chief!

and smurph...he outplayed ya!